Pluck-No-More Is Poison???

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Most of you know that Baby has been plucking for more that 2 years. Like most owners of pluckers, I have tried a variety of things to no positive effect. When she started plucking I bought a bottle of Pluck-No-More. I then bought 4 more bottles. It is pricey at $36.00 per bottle.

The directions say to dilute it with distilled water and spray the affected area 4 times a day as well as put it in the drinking water.

I never could find the time to spray her four times a day as directed and I was uncertain about putting it or anything else in her drinking water.

Over the past few days I have dug deep into the actual ingredients of Pluck-No-More. I have come up with some startling information that I want to share with everyone here. Please keep in mind that I am well aware that some substances of anything might be a rank poison in its natural form but when processed and/or diluted to such an extent it could be a positive medicine. BUT - WE ALL KNOW THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT HOW BIRDS REACT TO CERTAIN THINGS!!!

Here are the ingredients in Pluck-No-More. And I have included a link to information about the first ingredient. Please take time to read all the information in the link... you will be shocked!

Please give me your thoughts and comments.

Aconitum Napellus ...monkshood (this is poisonous)
Apis Mellifica ... bee pollen
Arnica Montana .... leopard's bane... painkiller and sleeping aid
Arsenicum Album .... arsencous oxide (arsenic)
Belladonna ... deadly nightshade
Bellis Perennis .... ox-eye or english daisy
Bryonia Alba ... byrony (emetic, cathortic (makes you sleepy)
Calendula Officinalis .... pot marigold antiseptic, antifugicide
Chamomilla ... chammomile... soothing safe sedative improves appetite
Cistus Canadensis ... sleeping meds...
Clematis Erecta ... clematis traveller's joy... treats lethargy.
Ferrum Phosphoricum ... phosphorus
Histaminum ... treats allergies (antihistamine)
Hypericum Perforatum .... st. john's wort ... immune system aid
Ignatia Amara .. st Ignacius bean
Impatiens Glandulifera Flos ... impatiens flowers .. star of Bethlehem ... nervousness
Ornithogalum Umbellatum ... star anise used for flavor
Passiflora Incarnata ... passionflower ... hallucenogenic ... sleeping aid
Phosphorus Prunus Cerasifera Flos ... cherry plum ... used to treat
loss of mental control, emotional and or physical.
Rhus Toxicodendron ... english ivy (this is poisonous for birds)
Sulphur Symphytum Officinale ... comfrey ... soothes stomach
Veratrum Album,\ ,vervain ... used for treating hyperactivity
Each Ingreident Contains Equal Volumes of 10x, 30x & 100x Potencies.

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/a/aconi007.html

---Medicinal Action and Uses---Anodyne, diuretic and diaphoretic. The value of Aconite as a medicine has been more fully realized in modern times, and it now rank as one of our most useful drugs. It is much used in homoeopathy. On account of its very poisonous nature, all medicines obtained from it come, however, under Table 1 of the poison schedule: Aconite is a deadly poison.

[TikiTalks]

omg... - just.. shocked -

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Here is a link for Belladonna --- another ingredient in Pluck-No-More!

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/n/nighde05.html

[Chrissy and Flock]

I am so glad I decided not to buy it... :D I don't know why but something told me don't throw your money away.... I am speechless...

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Here is a post I did a few weeks ago about Pluck-No-More and its endorsors...

There was another post that made me curious about the success of Kings Cages Pluck-No-More. http://www.kingscages.com/testimonials.php

I have used it with no success. But there are board certified vets and other avian professionals cited on Kings website that say otherwise.

So - I am putting every one of us to the challenge to find out what these people REALLY have to say about Pluck-No-More. If they have had great success with it - we should all know about it. It could be the cure we have been looking for.

And again - these porfessionals might be endorsing a product for the money. We will never know unless we contact each and every one of these folks to find out what is what.

I choose Dr.Greg Burkett, DVM for personal reasons with him because lead in cage paint.

Step up to the plate and become involved. If we are not their advocates - then who???

Here is the list - pick one and post back here your findings.


Dr.Samuel B. Vaughn, DVM
Luisville, Kentucky - Avian Diplomate, ABVP, (502) 245 7863
http://www.vetcity.com/
aviansam@bellsouth.net

------------------------

Dr.Greg Burkett, DVM
Board Certified Avian Veterinarian, Professor of Avian Medicine
Durham, North Carolina, (919) 490 3001
http://www.birdieboutique.com/
BirdVet@BirdieBoutique.com

-----------------------

Dr.Robert D. Schachner, DVM
The Animal Medical Center and Bird Clinic of Hollywood
521 N Federal Hwy, Hollywood, Florida, (954) 920 2400
http://animalmedicalcnt.com/
vinnie@animalmedicalcnt.com

------------------------------

Thomas Knight, DVM
Westside Animal Clinic, 711 N Fairfield Dr.,
Pensacola, Florida, (850) 453 3463
No Internet presence.

---------------------------

Dr.Linda Pesek, DVM
Avian Veterinarian, Columnist, lecturer, breeder, and aviculturist
Long Island, New York, East Islip Animal Hospital (631) 277 2266
http://www.eastislipanimalhospital.com (http://www.eastislipanimalhospital.com/)
http://www.westburyanimalhospital.com (http://www.westburyanimalhospital.com/)

-----------------------

Marc Morrone
TV celebrity from the Martha Stewart Show, "Pet Keeping with Marc Morrone"
Owner of Parrots of the World
Rockville Centre, New York, (516) 764 0717
http://www.marcmorrone.com/
petxperts2@aol.com
http://www.parrotsoftheworld.com/

-------------------------

Dr.Michael Doolen - Avian Veterinarian
Oakhurst, New Jersey, (732) 531 1212
http://www.oakhurstvet.com/
Contact - Cindy Mims-Nash: cmimsnash@oakhurstvet.com

--------------------

Dr.Jim McKinley, MS, DVM, Dipl.ABVP
Board-Certified Avian Specialist
Owner - Amwell Bird Hospital, Hillsborough, New Jersej, (908) 369 7373
http://www.amwellbirdhospital.com/

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Here is my email to Dr. Burkett...

Dr.Burkett,

I have a 4-1/2 year old Umbrella that has been plucking for over two years. I see that you endorse Kings Cages Pluck-No-More. I have used it with no success, but you and other avian professionals cited on Kings website say otherwise. http://www.kingscages.com/testimonials.php

If you have had success with Pluck-No-More - we should all know about it. It could be the cure we have been looking for. Please give me the details so I can pass it on to others.

Regards,
Larry Houston
Central Florida

===================

Here is my post on his response to me...

Uhhhh... What did he say????

I received this email from Dr Burkett - his response to me about Pluck-No-More...

Unfortunately there is no one magical treatment that treats feather damaging behaviors. Making such a statement even worse is the awful truth that the incidence of feather damaging behaviors is escalating. When I first heard of Pluck no More I allowed my fantasy of finding that cure outshine my skepticism of snake oils. I am of the opinion that if something has the odds only to treating even ONE self-mutilating bird, I think it should be used on all of them until that one bird is treated.

Before I staked my reputation in this product, I investigated its contents and the claims by the manufacturer. I even spoke with the person who developed the formula originally for human consumption, and modified it for his own plucking bird. I used it on some hospitalized birds, and suggested to some of my clients with feather damaging pets.

As I stated in the beginning there is no one treatment for these birds, and Pluck No More is no different. In my experience I see approximately 30%of birds improve. By improve I mean they may reduce their feather damaging behaviors,, and there are a limited number of cases that have fully recovered with using Pluck No More as an adjunct to multiple therapies. Of course all of these birds are completely worked up with multiple blood screening tests, viral screenings, cultures, x-rays, and other diagnostic modalities to rule out medical causes.

We have certainly not tried to keep this a secret. It has been available for a couple of years or more. This product is a holistic approach to treating this problem. It is a mix of herbs and other essences that are put together to produce calming effect.

Even if it does not help the bird, it can in no way harm the bird.
Dr B

[birdscomefirst]

Hi,

A "coupla" issues here. One is that as Larry Points out, Pluck no more counts on drugging your bird to make him/her less prone to plucking. They figure if a bird is zonked out most of the time, It won't be plucking.

Plucking is either a behaviorally based problem or a medically based problem. Neither can be solved by literally drugging a bird with poisonous herbals designed to knock a bird for a loop.

Even Burkett, tries to gloss it over by saying "It is a mix of herbs and other essences that are put together to produce a calming effect."

Calming effect=drugging the bird with herbals.

Realize that even in the human realm, herbals are not science. They are , in my opinion dangerous guesswork that does not have to be tested.

Also, as an aside. Dr. Burkett does not impress me. He's been assessed a Civil Monetary Penalty and received a letter of reprimand in a civil action by the North Carolina Veterinary Medical Board stemming from an issue with an African grey. He was found to have falsified records, did a surgery in an unlicensed facility, and was found to Violate the Veterinary Practice Act and/or Board Administrative rules as a result of that surgery. The bird, by the way, did not make it. That resulted in a $3000.00 Civil Monetary Penalty and, as mentioned, a letter of reprimand by the N.C. Veterinary Medical Board. That was in 1997.

In 1994, 1995 and part of 1996, he was found to have been knowingly "practicing veterinary medicine at his business premises not inspected and approved for practice by the board."

In what was called a consent order, he was assessed a $5000.00 Civil Monetary Penalty and had to surrender his license for 6 months. The first three months was an "active suspension". The next three months was stayed for a period of two years upon compliance with the terms of the consent order. That was in 1998.

I realize that that was all ten years ago but.....None of my avian vets have ever had their license suspended.

I am not too high on his opinions.

Thanks,
Bill

[too&me]

If these ingredients are being used as a homeopathic ingredient then there is little to none of the actual ingredient left in the product. Example Arnica montana will make you bleed if you ingest it cause swelling & pain. If used homeopathically it stops bleeding & swelling, perfect usage is for blunt trauma, Belladonna if taken will cause dialated pupils, hallucinations great pain mostly on the right side, homeopathically it is used to treat right sided pain, reduce fever accompanied by hallucinations ect. Same for all of these ingrediants, you cannot poison anyone or anything with a homeopathic remedy. But I have no knowledge of how he uses his ingredients.

[Larry, Baby and Me]

If these ingredients are being used as a homeopathic ingredient then there is little to none of the actual ingredient left in the product. Example Arnica montana will make you bleed if you ingest it cause swelling & pain. If used homeopathically it stops bleeding & swelling, perfect usage is for blunt trauma, Belladonna if taken will cause dialated pupils, hallucinations great pain mostly on the right side, homeopathically it is used to treat right sided pain, reduce fever accompanied by hallucinations ect. Same for all of these ingrediants, you cannot poison anyone or anything with a homeopathic remedy. But I have no knowledge of how he uses his ingredients.

"If these ingredients are being used as a homeopathic ingredient then there is little to none of the actual ingredient left in the product."

Just because a process or a mixture of ingredients are meant to be homeopathic does not mean they are benign. Point in case --- there have been human homeopathic medications on the market and taken off the market because of serious ill side affects. Some have even caused deaths!!!

"Same for all of these ingrediants, you cannot poison anyone or anything with a homeopathic remedy. "But I have no knowledge of how he uses his ingredients."

Neither does Richard King.... I spoke to Richard on several occasions regarding his Pluck-No-More. The sales of Pluck-No-More make up 10% of his business. It is a big money maker. And I have yet to hear results from one bird owner.... only the "paid for" vets.

I never could get a straight answer from Richard what his ingredients did or how they affect birds. He went on and on about how some of the ingredients are for nervousness, some are for tension, and some are for lessening the fears of thunder. --- yep you heard it right --- lessen the fear of thunder.

And get this --- Pluck-No-More ONLY works if you first shampoo your bird with his "Feather Shine Shampoo" (I have a bottle of it). It does not say it on the label - but Richard told me that all birds must first be bathed in his shampoo to rid the bird of mites and lice which is the main reason birds pluck --- Richard's words to me - I swear it!!!

And the most dangerous part of this mess is - there is no way to properly determine the poison strength of Aconitum when mixing it in the homeopathic formula for Pluck-No-More -- or any other product.

It is impossible to measure Aconitum's poison potency by volume or by weight. I recommend anyone concerned about these types of products and homeopathic remedies to read the full page that I gave a link to.

Here is an excerpt...

"This disparity between Aconites is a very important matter for investigation, though perhaps not so serious from a pharmaceutical point of view as might at first appear, since in the roots of several different species the alkaloid is found to possess similar physiological action; but this action varies in degree and the amount of alkaloid may be found to vary considerably. It is considered that the only reliable method of standardizing the potency of any of the Aconite preparations is by a physiological method: the lethal dose for the guinea-pig being considered to be the most convenient and satisfactory standard. Tinctures vary enormously as to strength, some proving seven times as powerful as others. "

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Here is a link supporting what I said about deaths.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-tryp1.html

[birdscomefirst]

If these ingredients are being used as a homeopathic ingredient then there is little to none of the actual ingredient left in the product. Example Arnica montana will make you bleed if you ingest it cause swelling & pain. If used homeopathically it stops bleeding & swelling, perfect usage is for blunt trauma, Belladonna if taken will cause dialated pupils, hallucinations great pain mostly on the right side, homeopathically it is used to treat right sided pain, reduce fever accompanied by hallucinations ect. Same for all of these ingrediants, you cannot poison anyone or anything with a homeopathic remedy. But I have no knowledge of how he uses his ingredients.

Hi,

The previous statement is inconsistent. You state about Arnica montana, "If used homeopathically it stops bleeding & swelling. You say about Belladonna, "homeopathically it is used to treat right sided pain, reduce fever accompanied by hallucinations etc."

So there can't be little to none of the ingredient or these purported results would be impossible. There must be enough of something to have these alleged results. If there is little to none of the ingredient, That would mean one of two things...the results when used homeopathically are a placebo effect making the homeopathic method for these products derived from herbs or plants just hype. OR.. if the results really do take place, there has to be enough of the chemicals remaining to effect a human or animal. Since it is derived from a poison, the act would be that it is an attempt at controlling a poisonous property in a way that is supposedly beneficial.

Many people forget that facet of homeopathic "medicine" and the use of herbs. It is often an administration of a poison at a low dose.

The stuff is still untested and people only go by what they were told by someone, who told someone else, who told someone else, who got it from somebody selling the stuff.

What remains in the product is not able to be measured and it has never been tested. No matter how one slices Pluck-No-More, it is either unsafe or unproven.

Thanks,
Bill

[wizard348]

It takes about three minutes to shut off my computer and get to the bathroom where I kept the Pluck No More. I our it down the toilet immediately after reading these post.

These doctors have no idea what they are indorsing. None. They get paid to say it is good and that's all that matters.

All of you that took the time to research and email these people, I send out a hearty THANK YOU.

Now I wonder what is really on a King Cage. I'm a Mechanical Engineer. I can assure you the cages that I have seen that were alleged to be powder coated were only painted. There was no powder coating on the cages I saw.

[Uncle]

Hi Wizard,

Thank you for your comments. We do go through a lot of research and dig deep for the truth so we can protect our birds.

As to Kings Cages - powder coated. We have had several Kings tested by independant labs and they were found to be safe. The paint samples were sent into the labs by bird people like you and me... just everyday folks with nothing to gain except to keep our birds safe.

Richard King makes a mighty fine cage but he should stick to making cages.

The cages that have tested toxic are made in China such as A&E and HQ among other brands. Kings cages are made in Europe and have tested good.

Yep - the vets and other "so-called" experts such as talk circuit "experts" and bird book aurthors have for too long scammed us. They endorse products for the bucks or out of ignorance. Caveat Emptor!