I need some insight, please (LONG)

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

I'm putting this post in this section because it's not an emergency really. I just had a really weird experience with Theo and I need to know if anyone has any ideas about this. First I come home to find tha Theo has chewed a good sized hole in the carpet near Linus's cage. I decide that I have to get her into a cage right away. I was out on the porch with Linus going over finances in my head about how I am going to afford the cage I am looking at for him. I hear wings fluttering and I hear a hard landing and I assume that it's a bird outside. While I am investigating that, Linus is running into the house. Next thing I know I'm chasing Linus who is chasing Theo. Linus stop when I tell him to, but Theo's wings are dragging and she's stumbling. So I bring Theo over to the table and I'm looking for blood assuming that Linus got her. There's no blood and I'm checking her wings which are fine. It was her foot (she was dragging her wings to keep herself upright). There's no blood, no gash, no sign of anything wrong except she is dragging her toes behind her like she is trying to walk on the top of her foot, and of course she was falling on her face. I grab the phone dial the vet - he's not there (they were due to close in an hour and I wanted him to wait for me), so they tell me to hold on for a nurse who would tell me if I needed to take her to an emergency vet or not. The techs and other people I wanted to talk to were also not there so I hung up. I didn't need someone to tell me that I needed a vet because I already knew I did, I was calling one. I tried to step her up which she did. I know what broken and dislocated bird toes look like - I have a teil with 3 toes forward and one back after an incident. Her grip was tentative and then was stronger and then she walked away like nothing had happened. She climbed up her perch and everything seems fine. Her foot isn't sore to the touch (or pinch). I am assuming she made a hard landing off her perch. But this was really weird. I have never seen a bird do this before. It was like her foot was atrophied, like she had no control over it and then it was fine. I called her former owner and he was as dumbfounded as I was. This had never happened before with her. He even suggested that maybe she had hit her head on the way down and It was neurological response because nothing else came to mind. That was a scary thought. Has anybody ever seen anything like this before??

[Uncle]

Patty, I don't know what to tell you....

I sent out the red flag alert... It might be nothing and again it might be something.

I will share an experience I had with Baby later....

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

Thanks Larry. I've been checking in hoping someone would read this... I am calm now. It's just I've never seen anything like the way she was walking.
She really seems fine now. I gave her a wheel of corn before I put her to bed and she manipulated it in her left foot and stood on right foot (the problem foot) just as always. Her grip is fine. Weird. Just weird. I don't mind telling you it scared the you-know-what out of me.

[Don]

""I decide that I have to get her into a cage right away. ""

Are her wings clipped ?

Well, I know it's a bit late for finger pointing :) BUT, that is the decision you should have made before bringing her home. YOU are responsible for what happens with interactions, and they are never scripted, and things can happen in a blink of an eye ! What if she had chewed a hole in an electrical cord......phzzzzttt...

Get her in at least a temporary cage asap, and we'll all sleep better for it, please !

As for the possible head trauma, I've seen it several times when flighted birds fly into window, a wall or fixture and furnishings, it seems to knock the equilibrium out, sometimes they lose the use of their extremeties, and more often than not, after a period of time they may get back to normal, some sooner than others. The possibility of permanent damage or even death is there.

The way you describe her recovery I think she is very fortunate and may have suffered only temporary problems, best wishes for you and her.

end of rant, Don

[Uncle]

Patty,

Theo bears watching to see if there are any lingering affects. She seems to be doing fine... I would let her sleep and see how she is in the morninig.

Now for my story with Baby which might shed some light on your episode...

She was a little less than a year old. She was clipped when I got her at 4 - 1/2 months and her flight feathers were not fully grown out yet but she was able to glide okay.

It was in the evening and she was walking on the back of the couch but I noticed that she was not walking just right. Her left leg was weak and it was like she was in pain. After an hour or so she became okay. And then a month later - in the morning I opened her cage door for her to step up and she offered me her left foot but could not put any weight on her leg. I picked her up out of her cage and determined that she was indeed in pain and could not use that leg.

I wrapped her up in a baby blanket and off to the vet we went with my wife holding Baby in her lap. The vet examined her and found nothing broken. She gently manipulated her foot and leg and within a half hour got Baby to be able to stand.

The vet had no explanation for what happened. On both occasions Baby had not fallen or even jumped hard for her to injure herself - but nonetheless she was injured somehow. If anyone has some insight on this one - I would appreciate it.

I am glad Theo is okay - but check her leg in the morning.

About what Don said --- I will say - yep - what Don said.

[Chrissy and Flock]

Could it be that maybe the leg went to sleep... you know how it happens to us humans if the circulation is interupted and maybe takes longer for their little legs to get moving right again... Just a thought.

[Uncle]

If that were the case - then the bird would have serious nuerological (nervous system) or circuirlitory problems.

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

Thanks Don. Rant at me anytime. I feel very fortunate. I wish I knew what happened exactly.

Thing with Theo is that she has never been caged and really doesn't want to be after 22 years of total freedom. The living room is and has been very birdproofed because of Linus. No cords to go....phzzzttt...with! Kitchen cabinets are child-locked etc.
As far as clipping goes, she is an over-preener and really has pitiful wing feathers- not much to clip and can't get enough air to slam dunk a basketball.
Yes, a new cage. She'll go into Linus's current one and Linus will get the new cage I've been looking at. The bills will have to wait.

On a positive note, she is playing with toys for the very first time! She's never expressed a 'recognized' desire for them according to her former owner. That's very exciting! She had a blue tongue from chewing on a blue wood block foot toy!

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

Larry, Boy that Baby keeps you on your toes. How scary, though. I will indeed check her out in the morning and for some time to come. The only thing that makes any sense is that she had a bad landing. The positioning of the perch really wouldn't allow her to fly 'into' anything. But she recovered so quickly!

I am going to have trouble getting her into a cage. One good thing is that she did climb into Linus's cage to check it out the other day and that cage will wind up being hers. I'm going to take a couple of days off after I get it set up for her and work with her on it. At least she's not afraid of it. A little hope there.

[Don]

""But she recovered so quickly!""

This time....... !

[Uncle]

Larry, Boy that Baby keeps you on your toes.

Yep - she has taught me a thing or two. I have made every mistake in the book with Baby and I have invented a few on my own. It is a wonder she is still alive while in my care... I guess that is why I have become such an avian advocate.

I have found... these birds can get themselves in the worst kind of trouble when you least expect it. Just like with the lead in cage paint mess. My China made cage is highly toxic with lead - but she would have to chew on the bars and swallow some of the paint to get her sick... she had never chewed on the bars... but sures shooten, the moment I turn my back she would have eaten half the cage. I could not take the chance - so I replaced the cage to a safe one.

[birdscomefirst]

Could it be that maybe the leg went to sleep... you know how it happens to us humans if the circulation is interupted and maybe takes longer for their little legs to get moving right again... Just a thought.

Hi,

This is what I was going to suggest as well. I had this happen once with Dory, one of my rescued greys. he sometimes sleeps on one foot, he sometimes sleeps leaning forward as some greys will.

He woke up, fell of his perch and it sounded exactly like what happened here.

Within several minutes, everything with the foot was fine. My Avian vet back East said that it is pretty uncommon, but it is known to happen.

It has happened with Dory one time in the 10 plus years since I adopted him and there was never another occasion like that.


Now, while this is possible, there are some other things to keep in mind. The obvious would be a stroke but that can pretty much be ruled out since there are no lasting effects of this episode.

The next would be a seizure disorder. It's possible and the only way to know if that is the case is if it happens again. In the meantime, a slight increase in calcium in the diet helps. Also, it is good not to feed foods that can bind calcium such as parsley, spinach and chard for example.
A few almonds, unsalted, unshelled and toasted then cooled can make a nice treat that will add calcium to the diet.

A slight sprain may have occurred that took care of itself after a few minutes.

The last one although I don't think this is the case could be that the bird is learning a new "trick" just to get some excitement going.

It is not beyond a parrot to do this:-)

Check with your avian vet and keep an eye on your bird. Cage might be a good idea.

I hope this helps,

Bill

[FoxersArtist]

Here is my theory and i'm sorry it's a little late. Please keep in mind that i'm not a vet, so don't take my word for it.

Sometimes when a bird experiences a great fright or takes a hard landing or anything else really traumatic, they go into "shock" which will affect their nervious system for a short period of time. I have seen shocky birds do all of the things you are describing - wings out and trying to stand on the bridge of their feet. They don't seem to perch very well but I have had a few step up none the less. They seem to squat really low to keep their balance. All of this seems to get better with some rest and once the bird settles down, it is back to it's normal self. It could be possible that Theo saw something that really spooked him, flew down and hit the floor hard, and then to make matters worse, was chased by Linus. All of that could have sent him into shock and it just took some time for him to settle down and regain his senses. Again though, please do not take my word for it and watch your baby very carefully. If you have any suspicion at all that he might not be ok, I would have him seen by your vet as soon as he is available.

(I was doing flight arrobics with Peggy Sue once and some how she lost her balance and i managed to let go of her foot all at once. She went flying upside down across the room (clipped) and landed on her back. She wriggled upside down on the floor for a moment and in horror I was thinking, dear God, she's broken her neck or her back and my baby is going to die. She was in shock for about 30 minutes but slowly came out of it. during that period of time she could not stand or perch and she had her wings spread all the way out. One of the scariest 30 minutes of my life.)
-Anna

[too&me]

Sounds as if you have about covered all the bases. I am so glad she is behaving normally now but we would like an update. It does sound like a shocky bird to me also, I have observed wild birds do the same thing when they hit a window or door or a domestic bird if over handled in a stressful situation. Let us know any updates.

[EasySpirit]

Here is my theory and i'm sorry it's a little late. Please keep in mind that i'm not a vet, so don't take my word for it.

Sometimes when a bird experiences a great fright or takes a hard landing or anything else really traumatic, they go into "shock" which will affect their nervious system for a short period of time. I have seen shocky birds do all of the things you are describing - wings out and trying to stand on the bridge of their feet. They don't seem to perch very well but I have had a few step up none the less. They seem to squat really low to keep their balance. All of this seems to get better with some rest and once the bird settles down, it is back to it's normal self. It could be possible that Theo saw something that really spooked him, flew down and hit the floor hard, and then to make matters worse, was chased by Linus. All of that could have sent him into shock and it just took some time for him to settle down and regain his senses. Again though, please do not take my word for it and watch your baby very carefully. If you have any suspicion at all that he might not be ok, I would have him seen by your vet as soon as he is available.

(I was doing flight arrobics with Peggy Sue once and some how she lost her balance and i managed to let go of her foot all at once. She went flying upside down across the room (clipped) and landed on her back. She wriggled upside down on the floor for a moment and in horror I was thinking, dear God, she's broken her neck or her back and my baby is going to die. She was in shock for about 30 minutes but slowly came out of it. during that period of time she could not stand or perch and she had her wings spread all the way out. One of the scariest 30 minutes of my life.)
-Anna


Same here. Sadie was climbing up a chair, grabbed something to get on top. Object fell pinning her as she fell. Landed on back and hit head. I too thought she was dieing. At first she could not move. Then it was lack of use of legs and wings. She had a stunned look for quite some time. She gradually came around. Broke a blood vessel in her eye. Off to the vet we went. It was felt she had a mild concussion and to observe her for one week. She was placed on Metacam for the pain and antimflammatory effect. The blood in her eye moved across the eye and was eventually absorbed. This was two or 3 years ago. She is just fine and does everything in a normal way.

me :hihihi:

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

Thank you all so much. I am so grateful I have all of you here to help me.
I am watching her closely. Her grip is good and she seems fine. It was the most confounding thing, she was in such trouble one minute and then the next she's climbing back up her perch. I guess I also need to remember her age which I suppose could've played a part in it.

Bill, I will increase calcium as you said, of course I fed her spinach just this morning but will keep away from that. Are there any other foods I should offer? The feathered fools in my house won't eat almonds, just peanuts. They don't know what they're missing. For the record a cage is forthcoming, I decided to borrow against my 401k to get one.

Again, you guys, thank you. You mean the world to me. You always have the best advice and support to offer, I don't know what I would do without having you all to lean on.

Patty

[Chrissy and Flock]

The feathered fools in my house won't eat almonds, just peanuts. They don't know what they're missing.
Patty

I think your birds and my birds are related :rofl:

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

I think your birds and my birds are related :rofl:

They kinda look alike...