Egg laying question...

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Here is an email that Karen sent me this morning and my response. I am not up to speed about egg laying --- so I ask you who are for your wisdom. Thanks - Larry.

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Hi Larry,

Sammy just laid an egg. Of course it's Saturday, so I'm not sure what I am to do. I figured I would email you before attempting to locate the vet again. She appears fine, she's her usual self. She's not sitting on the egg, but put one of her toys in the bottom of her cage and is sitting on that. Do I let her keep that egg (it looks just like an egg, no abnormalities)? Will she have more? Do you know if she can become egg-bound with more?

I'm sorry for asking you all these questions, but again, it's Saturday and the vet is not in to call him. Thanks so much for your help!

Karen

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My response...

Good morning Karen,
So Sammy gave you a present - how wonderful. I don't have personal experience with egg laying but I know a lot of people who do. So, here is what I understand about it.

By what you say, Sammy is doing just fine. If she has no interest in the egg and is sitting on a toy instead then I would remove the egg when she is distracted. As far as laying more egges -- it is any one's guess. Most likely since she is a Mollucan she will not lay any more this season. As far as I understand, since she has a history of being egg-bound - it is something that should be watched out for in the future.

If she starts to show interest in the egg or becomes possessive of it - I would leave it with her until she tires of it in a couple days. Ya just gotta play it by ear.

[EasySpirit]

No breeding birds here. There are some general rules though. If the egg is intact leave it with her until she no longer shows interest. If they show interest they will usually leave it along by days 25-28 which would be incubation time. they then leave it and at that time discard the egg. Taking away the egg too soon can encourage further egg laying.

Laying eggs deplete the calcium so add foods rich in calcium such as dark leafy veggies, brocolli. If she won't eat that a bit of cheese sprinkled over her food would work (parmassean) or shaved cuttle bone.

Do NOT feel around the pelvis for further eggs. If you are not experienced there is always the possibility of breaking the egg if there is one.

Me

[Don]

I wouldn't worry, I think laying eggs is a natural thing female birds can do - even in captivity they have hormones and seasons. She can possibly lay 2 to 4 eggs at 3 day intervals is normal. It's her egg, taking it may just encourage her to replace it. The laying of an egg isn't going to deplete her calcium level enough to notice, nor would an entire clutch of eggs, her body has been preparing for this. Added Calcium needs a balance of phosphorus and Vit D3 to become assimilated into the system, just adding CA alone will only pass thru in the urates. Many dark leafy greens contain oxalic acid, a calcium blocker, so feeding them give zero benefit. If you feel you need to add CA, I suggest a balanced calcium/phos. powder to be mixed into the soft foods.

Don
donsbirds.com

[birdscomefirst]

Hi,

I have a too here that occasionally lays an egg. Its about once every 3 or 4 months. In fact, she laid one two days ago. I always take hers out and she always produces just one egg.

If your bird has not layed before and there is no previous pattern established, you may want to take the egg out. She doesn't seem to have a great interest in it.

The reasoning behind this, and it is contrary to a lot of what you read, is this:

With some birds, especially ones like my Casper that are occasional egg layers, leaving the egg will simulate more nesting behavior and then , more eggs.

The only way to find out if your girl is an occasional egg layer is to remove the first egg and then see if she lays another. If she lays another then leave that one and she will probably produce a clutch of 4 to 6 eggs.

If she doesn't lay another egg, then you've short circuited the process and that is usually a good thing.

She would lay again in 2 to 5 days if she is going to so you will have to keep a close eye on her for the next week or so to be sure everything is OK.

Once a pattern is established ie., She doesn't lay any more eggs, or she lays a clutch, you will know how to handle it the next time.

It's a situation where if you take the egg away now, you have a lesser chance that she will continue laying. The only way to know is to remove it and see what happens.

I remove the egg as soon as I find it, in the morning. After I remove it, What I do is prick the egg with a pin and blow the contents out. Then I thouroughly let the the egg dry. If Casper gets the urge someday to lay more than one egg in a row, I can slip in two or three of the empties in with her and that will cause her to lay fewer eggs.

If you are not familiar with her egg laying pattern then you must always keep egg binding in mind as a possibility. I have found that once a healthy egg is laid that egg binding is much less likely but not impossible.

It is sometimes tough to figure out if a bird is egg bound because they may go through some of the normal signs of nesting like sitting in the bottom corner of a cage even when no egg is present. nesting behaviors such as sitting in a corner fluffed up can easily look like a bird is in distress and egg bound.

It's a wait and see proposition.

It's a nail biter too (to) and it will always be.

You don't want to have a chronic egg layer so you try to short circuit the egg laying process. At the same time after a second or third or fourth egg is laid, you can usually worry less about egg binding.

Referring to my above statement about being contrary to what's read, I want to add that it is most always written that removing an egg will stimulate more egg laying as a bird will have a natural urge to complete a clutch of eggs. This is not always the case and as mentioned, until you know your bird's pattern, you can take a chance on removing the egg and seeing what comes next.

Your little lady should be fine but keep a close eye on her.

I hope this helps,

Bill

[bonnie]

This is SO interesting! I have a male.. I don't see egg laying!

[Don]

hi Bill - I think if there are 3 active egg folicles working, she will lay 3 eggs - taking the first one won't stop the rest if they are in the plumbing. In the case of the unpaird bird laying a single egg, that is all she has produced in that particular cycle(s). And I think more often than not, taking eggs drives the brooding birds to go back to nest, if they are still stimulated.

Don

[iti hoa's mom]

I wouldn't worry, I think laying eggs is a natural thing female birds can do - even in captivity they have hormones and seasons. She can possibly lay 2 to 4 eggs at 3 day intervals is normal. It's her egg, taking it may just encourage her to replace it. The laying of an egg isn't going to deplete her calcium level enough to notice, nor would an entire clutch of eggs, her body has been preparing for this. Added Calcium needs a balance of phosphorus and Vit D3 to become assimilated into the system, just adding CA alone will only pass thru in the urates. Many dark leafy greens contain oxalic acid, a calcium blocker, so feeding them give zero benefit. If you feel you need to add CA, I suggest a balanced calcium/phos. powder to be mixed into the soft foods.

Don
donsbirds.com


The greens I guess I was suggesting would be kale etc rather than spinach. Kale has a good calcium and phosphorous ratio.

Question. Although calcium would not be depleted with one egg, would there not still be some dietary concern nutritionally? and the diet might need a bit of tweeking? Rember I nor my birds breed :o

[Chrissy and Flock]

That was interesting, I have 2 female umbies. Cassie has laid 1 egg but not since I have had her. Of course AngelBaby is not much more than an egg herself (4 months old) so don't have to worry about her. My tiel laid 3 eggs last spring, first time she ever laid any, she is 9 years old next month.

[iti hoa's mom]

This is SO interesting! I have a male.. I don't see egg laying!


My boys don't lay eggs :rofl: neither nor do my girls. :eek: nor me :bowdown::rofl:

[Don]

Keep in mind that dietary changes, including the addition of calcium, can be one of the things that stimulates the breeding hormones, and some species can produce year round in certain areas(geographically, it seems).

Many people correct a deficient diet and then are surprised with egg production from single hens, but don't expect it from your males (just to stay on topic for those who were wondering ) :)

[Chrissy and Flock]

but don't expect it from your males (just to stay on topic for those who were wondering ) :)

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[bonnie]

LOL I'll keep that in mind Don...

'note to self... do not expect any eggs from Chicken'

LOL

[Larry, Baby and Me]

LOL I'll keep that in mind Don...

'note to self... do not expect any eggs from Chicken'

LOL

Or Don.... :exct::exct::exct::exct:

[iti hoa's mom]

Keep in mind that dietary changes, including the addition of calcium, can be one of the things that stimulates the breeding hormones, and some species can produce year round in certain areas(geographically, it seems).

Many people correct a deficient diet and then are surprised with egg production from single hens, but don't expect it from your males (just to stay on topic for those who were wondering ) :)


So what you are telling me is I don't have to eat any dark green leafy veggies :rofl: (don't want any eggs here)

(noting all the information Don...thanks as this is an area I don't know much about)

Now tell me, how is that U2 girl doing?

[Don]

Peggy, yes, you have to eat your Broccolli and Brussel Sprouts.

the U2 girlbird is doing fine, pretty and pretty goofy like an Umbie :)

- she's in need of a home - going to the Pomona CA mart next weekend and hope she finds one that she likes.

Don

[birdscomefirst]

Don makes a good point. Sometimes though there are no other eggs produced and removing the first can short circuit the production of more. Don is completely right and without going into the details that Don did, I suggested that it might or might not make a difference.

If you do leave the first egg, there is a better than even chance that more will be produced.

There is sometimes a delay in a hen before the production of a second egg and that's the window we are hoping to catch.

Still, what Don suggests is one of my suggested outcomes. You may get more eggs, and you may not. It is always a tough call the first time around.

Thanks Don... it's a great piece of information to put out there!

Bill

[birdscomefirst]

Hi,

Just to add to the discussion, Casper my little girl too who lays one egg and stops, has for the first time in the four years since I rescued her and after I removed one egg, laid a second one this morning.

So...what I described is something to try but it is not always going to work:-) Casper has never laid back to back eggs until now.

Thanks,
Bill

[Don]

Hi Bill, how much time in between eggs ? And do you know her age ?

Don

[birdscomefirst]

Hi Don,

Two days between eggs and she is 12 to 13 years old.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks Don....

Bill

[Don]

I think 2 days is really quick, I don't think I have any birds that lay with that little time in between. Around here it's 3 days period, from Pyrrhura to Macaw and everything inbetween . She's definately at prime maturity at that age -

Don