Safe Cages...

[Larry, Baby and Me]

We have had a few posts asking about what cages might be safe and which ones are not...

The only powder coated (painted) cages that I know of that have tested safe are of the Kings European line... made in the Czech Republic.

The only SS cages that I know of that have passed the magnet test are of the Kings SS line... German SS.

The Kings Economy line and Economy Luxury line cages are made in Asia (that's China folks) and I have no test results for them... so - I cannot recommend them until we have some private testing done.

I have been asked if all China made cages are toxic --- Every China cage that has been tested so far has been proven highly toxic in lead or zinc and some both with high lead AND zinc.

How can you tell if your cage is made in China??? If you do not know the country of origin of your cage - then assume it was made in China... and most likely you have a problem.

Here is the magnitude of the problem... there are over 17 million companion birds in the US alone. Just about every bird requires its own cage - a cage for each bird = 17,000,000 cages in American homes.

Over the past 3 years - 85% of ALL cages sold in the US were made in China. If you don't believe me - go to WalMart or ToysR-Us and try to find an American made children's toy.

Do the math... The chances of your cage being made in China is great.

Most likely the cage your lovely ball of feathers is in tonight and will climb and and grab the bars by its beak tomorrow morning as it cheerfully greats you... is poisoning your bird!

[Chrissy and Flock]

I thought King cages prided themselves that their cages are safe, guess I was wrong.

[Larry, Baby and Me]

"I thought King cages prided themselves that their cages are safe, guess I was wrong. "

Chrissy,

Let me see if I can clear this up for you...

Kings Euopean line and their SS line have been privately tested by an HB member and they are good.

The Kings Economy line has not been privately tested so - they are an "unknown".

Many other brands and unknown brands that were made in China have tested toxic.

So - that's them apples.

[Chrissy and Flock]

Hmm I sure hate that no one knows, Cassie needs a bigger cage and I can't afford the more expensive one at this time. Larry do you think those people at Kings Cages would be honest if some one were to ask them?

[Larry, Baby and Me]

I have talked to Richard King and his son Andrew on several occasions since Aug of last year... I found both of them to be upfront and honest.

Without getting into tons of detail that spans several months... The Kings economy line is made in China, but at a different company that makes the A&E cages and the other toxic cages coming out of China.

Richard does his best to insure that his cages and his reputation are the best in this country. He has strict requirements for the manufacturing of all his cages - including the ones made in China. He requires the China facility to provide him random test samples of the cages they make for Kings. All their test results meet safe standards. BUT - Richard does not fully trust the Chinese... he says they will slit their own mother's throat for a nickle. So - he also periodically pulls cages out of his imported inventory and has had them tested. They all came back with results of safe.

BUT --- here is the problem.... Richard has been sending his paint samples to Michigan State for testing. That lab has used the leaching method instead of the digestion method. Also - Richard has also sent parts to the Michigan State lab for testing. Both of these testing methods are invalid. The ONLY proper way to test for lead in cage paint is by the way I lay it out on www.happybirdy.com (http://www.happybirdy.com) home page.

If you read the info on my link --- you will see that the ONLY way to test for lead and zinc in cage paint is to scrape paint samples and send them to a lab that will perform the leaching method. All other testing methods are not valid.

Bottom line --- Richard does not know what his China made cages really test at. I am waiting for private testing to be done on his economy line. So - I cannot make any recommendations on the Kings China cages until I know for certain what they test at.

Remember -- you get what you pay for.

Please ask more questions.

[Chrissy and Flock]

I will not buy till I know for sure, I wish I could afford the better one. If I thought they would take it back if it was dangerous I would buy one and get it tested, I definately cannot afford to be stuck with a cage I can't use.

[Larry, Baby and Me]

I recommend you save up and buy one of the European cages... You should also get one that is big enough for an Umbie. The Kings 506 is the right size. Please do not be fooled --- Umbies do need that size cage... 3 feet by 4 feet.

A 2 feet by 3 feet cage is way too small for an Umbie or a Mollucan.

[Chrissy and Flock]

I agree thats what I will do.

[Birdlover]

Larry, I will see if I can get a copy of a test done by LSU on a Kings Economy cage. I know someone that just had hers tested and it came back at 30 ppm for lead and 14 ppm for zinc, both of which fall into the "acceptable" limits.

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Coooool.

Way to go Jill... Thanks!!!!!!!!

[Birdlover]

I would still test individual cages, but it was great to see good results like that even off their economy line :)

[CrystalinNC]

How about HQ cages, anyone know if they're safe?

[Larry, Baby and Me]

We had one bird owner test her HQ cage and it came back as off the charts for zinc.

[CrystalinNC]

that sucks...I was hoping to get one of the roomy flight cages...
i have a King's cage now, thank goodness, but wanted to buy the new babies I'm getting a nice cage...can't afford a King's just yet though....=(

[Wanda and Flock]

Okay, cross your fingers for me...here's an ad I responded to and am waiting for an answer!!

"Kings Cages." Only $500 each!
The smaller one is a model 406.
The larger one is a model 506.
Normally retail for 1000.00 and 1200.00.
They have a lifetime warranty and are "birdproof"
They are good for any parrots, and reccomended for all macaws.
The 506 is even for greenwing and hyacinth macaws.
I have all the oringinal paperwork."

I am holding my breath! That would take care of Dolly and Eve in one shot for less than one cage! This is like waiting to see if the sellers of our house accepted our offer! I am on the edge of the seat here...

[CrystalinNC]

Are you getting them from a company or individual? I know that on King's website,they have some really good deals as well. I got a double cage, HUGE, the larges they had with 5/8 inch bars...Model 208 for $499, originally 900 dollars. They have it now for 599, so I caught it just in time. However, if you were to take out the middle partition, and they have a partition with an opening that comes with the cage, then you would have a HUGE cage straight from them for 599. I wouldn't want you to get a cage that's not King's if you're not getting it from a reputable company.
Also...they didn't charge me tax or shipping, just 499...so keep that in mind when you're shopping as well. =)
Good luck, and congrats!

[Wanda and Flock]

GOOD NEWS!!! The lady that had the 2 King's cages for sale still has them! She also has all of the paperwork. The models are 406 and 506 from the European line! I am going to see them Thursday and will snatch them up!! YIPPEE!!!

[Wanda and Flock]

OH! I almost forgot! I felt like dancing! *L* :dancered: :dancered: :dancered: :dancered: :dancered:

[Chrissy and Flock]

Wow Wanda thats worth dancing for.....

[CrystalinNC]

Congrats! If you see anymore deals like that...lemme know...cause apparantly, I need a King's cage, after all of the research I've done today! =)

[Wanda and Flock]

I will keep an eye out for you. I found them in Kingwood -on craigslist. Give that a try... craigslist.org

Just be safe about it and deal with people face to face and with company. There's alot of scammers out there. You might even post on the wanted section that you want King's European Cages only. You'd be surprised what people have sitting around. But, I will definitely check for you too. What is your nearest large city?

[Birdlover]

:woohoo::yahoo::exct: Way to go Wanda!! Im so happy that she still has them! That is an awesome deal for sure!! :dancered::dancered:

[Wanda and Flock]

Lookie here....this could be it. Call them and find out if it's a king's cage. Sure looks like one!
"I have a very large white two bird bird cage. My parents have two blue and gold macaws that each have a cage. This is the cage they used to keep them together when they were in the sunroom. Nice condition, very roomy, has some toys and wooden perch toy with them. asking 400.00"

Found in craigslist under Raleigh area of SC...type it in all wanted/sale section and just put bird cage if this link does not work.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/for/568588013.html

[Birdlover]

Looks like a Kings 406 to me. Nice deal!

[Larry, Baby and Me]

That is a Kings 406. It has the drop door in the top front - the 506 does not. That is a real good buy for a real good and roomy cage. Good luck.

[too&me]

Good work Wanda!

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

Wanda I have just spent the last three days searching craigslist and other places for a cage for Linus. You lucked out girl!!

[Wanda and Flock]

I just talked to the lady that has the cages. Dave is picking them both up tomorrow for 800.00 total! God blessed me...AGAIN!

[Chrissy and Flock]

You really did luck out there, I am happy for you.:D

[Wanda and Flock]

Of course I inquired about her birds. She gave them away...

[Chrissy and Flock]

wonder why she didnt let the cages go with the birds ... hmmmmmmmmm

[Wanda and Flock]

Yep, me too. She had a B&G and a GW, both boys. Could be like my situation with Benny...

[Chrissy and Flock]

I came after the fact on that one ... your birds were already at Anna's when I joined the flock...

[Wanda and Flock]

Just too far away to get a cage to her....

Unless, of course, she wants to just move next door- then I'd get it re-done and give it to her. I think that's fair. But noooooooooooo, she has to live on the other side of the world... I am still plotting her kidnapping, I'll keep you posted. The featherless kids are soooo cute and all those sweet little birds.....if she lived near me, I'd probably quit work and hang out at her house all day! hehehehe

[Chrissy and Flock]

Know what you mean I would do the same thing ......:haha:

[Wanda and Flock]

Okay, the cages are here. Unfortunately, I did not go with Dave to pick them up or I probably wouldn't have bought them! There are a couple patches of missing paint and one has rust. Does anybody know what I can do? Dave suggested that he paint them with a safe paint- just sand the spots and "doctor it". Or is that a no-no too? It's a small place of rust but it's rust. AND, I can see the paint is going to chip very easily. Lifetime warranty...phooey! Is spray paint okay if it doesn't have lead and zinc???

[Uncle]

Okay, the cages are here. Unfortunately, I did not go with Dave to pick them up or I probably wouldn't have bought them! There are a couple patches of missing paint and one has rust. Does anybody know what I can do? Dave suggested that he paint them with a safe paint- just sand the spots and "doctor it". Or is that a no-no too? It's a small place of rust but it's rust. AND, I can see the paint is going to chip very easily. Lifetime warranty...phooey! Is spray paint okay if it doesn't have lead and zinc???

It sounds like the cages were left outside or in an environement that would produce rust... ie. not in the house.

Get your money back or spend about $300.00 a piece to get them sand blasted and powder coated at a local company.

Spray paint - some will kill your birds in a flash... I think Don and Bill can give you info on this.

[Wanda and Flock]

Okay, I was afraid of that. I just put them outside until we figure it all out.

[Don]

If they have a lifetime warranty I'd push real hard on that !
or
If you can clean the rust & loose paint spots down to clean metal, There are child safe/food contact safe paints you can touch up with - do not use rustoleum, very toxic. If you have a powdercoater nearby, it doesn't cost to ask what they'd want to redo the cage(s) - some cages are worth refnishing, the metalwork is excellent but the finish may be less than desired or even dangerous = china again. Keep in mind that NO spray can paint is going to hold up for very long = 1 good toenail or beak application :(

Don

[Wanda and Flock]

Well, I went back after I read Don's post to look for the warranty info, but now I can't find it. I question my sanity...maybe I saw it somewhere else. ARGH!! I did find one company in Houston area that said they do "small jobs". I will get in touch with them on Monday. In the meantime, I am going to scrub it down and clean it to the metal where the spots are. Thanks for the info Don.

[birdscomefirst]

OK, they can be spot repaired. Also, keep in mind , and believe it or not, iron oxide, rust, is not a hazard. Iron oxide is basically what you take as an iron supplement. So if it good old fashioned , reddish colored rust, don't panic.

If there is zinc in the metal, the result of oxidation will be zinc oxide and that will look like a white powder. That is a problem. What is also an issue is if the paint is easily flaking away from those spots. If the paint is not just falling away, you should be ok for now.

You can actually clean the rust off with a paste of baking soda and a soft cloth. It's actually a coin cleaning trick but it works on all metal surfaces. Depending upon the underlying metal, cleaning of the rust may be all you need to do. Rinse with vinegar and water after you wash with the baking soda paste. Expect bubbles just rinse until all the bubbles are gone:-)

In the meantime, I'll look into safe paints that can be used for touchups. I should be able to post something on this tomorrow. (Saturday)

As stated, rustoleum is toxic so are many paints.

Don't stop researching on your own but powder coating and touching up powder coating can be an expensive process if done right.

What colors are you needing to touch up?

Thanks,
Bill

[birdscomefirst]

Also, I may be wrong, but I think King's Cages is going out of the cage business, so a lifetime warantee is going to be seriously shortened if this is correct.

Can anyone back that up?

Thanks,
Bill

[Uncle]

Its not Kings cages that is going out of business - I do know that Cal cages is about done for.

[Wanda and Flock]

What colors are you needing to touch up?

Thanks,
Bill

The cages are an off white color, I am going to clean them today. But honestly, I'll spot paint them pink if I have to. It might be fun! *L* As long as they are safe, I'll use whatever color I have to use. I'll paint every other bar or something creative if I want it to "look" good. Pink cages- how cute for the little princesses! :rofl: In fact, I actually like the idea.

Okay, so clean w/baking soda paste and rinse w/vinegar & water. Don't sand yet...got it.

Waiting for your reply on where/what to buy in paint. Don said food/contact safe paints too.

[birdscomefirst]

I got sidetracked today and I'll be busy all day tomorrow on Easter. I'll have to look into this more on Monday and fill in the blanks. Sorry for the delay.

One note though. Birds will probably be drawn to spots of different colors so ideally we want to touch up in a color that is close to the original.

I didnt forget, I just got caught up in something else today.

Thanks,
Bill

[birdscomefirst]

This link would say what I would say...BUT, and that is a big BUT, (That sounds funny)...Anyway...

http://qp-society.com/qpserc/paintzinc.html

Baby safe Paints are supposed to be the safest if you allow them to dry for a week or more. Using it as a touch up should cause no problems. For touch ups, forget the wire brush part, just do what I said to clean the spots, let them dry thouroughly and then lightly sand only the spot to give the paint something to adhere to. Don't use a primer. If the cage is to be indoors, the rust wont come back through.

In the meantime, still don't do anything. I want to personally examine some paints at a local paint store to find what would be the safest.

Thanks,
Bill

[Uncle]

Bill - good article - thanks.

I will add an addendum to this article.

At the bottom it says... "Some zippers, old eye glass frames, and some metal buttons, which are certainly enticing to Quakers, can contain lead and zinc."

It should read... "ALL zippers (except plastic zippers which is also harmful to birds), old eye glass frames, and ALL metal buttons, which are certainly enticing to Quakers, DO contain zinc."

[Evelyn]

Bill- -

This is probably a dumb question, or else somebody would have done it.

If you have a paint-chipped cage, why can't you just clean it down to the metal and not repaint it (assuming it is going to be indoors). Does the metal the cage is made out of contain lead or zinc? Is that why they are painted in the first place?

Evelyn

[birdscomefirst]

Bill - good article - thanks.

I will add an addendum to this article.

At the bottom it says... "Some zippers, old eye glass frames, and some metal buttons, which are certainly enticing to Quakers, can contain lead and zinc."

It should read... "ALL zippers (except plastic zippers which is also harmful to birds), old eye glass frames, and ALL metal buttons, which are certainly enticing to Quakers, DO contain zinc."

ALSO: Lincoln cents minted starting later in 1982 and to the present are made of pure zinc plated with copper. Don't let your bird play with coins.

Also, toys with keys on them should have the keys removed. There is zinc in those as well.

While we are on zinc, baby foods are laden with zinc so those that feed baby food out of those little jars, organic or not, should read the labels. Most have a percentage of zinc listed that pertains to the percentage needed in a childs diet. It is enough to poison a bird.

Some of the baby foods in jars do not have zinc, most of them though are oversupplemented with Vitamin A, and sodium. Still unsafe for birds.

Thanks,
Bill

[birdscomefirst]

Bill- -

This is probably a dumb question, or else somebody would have done it.

If you have a paint-chipped cage, why can't you just clean it down to the metal and not repaint it (assuming it is going to be indoors). Does the metal the cage is made out of contain lead or zinc? Is that why they are painted in the first place?

Evelyn

Hi Evelyn,

You can leave it alone but there are two issues. One is what you allude to. Unless the metal is tested, it could have lead or zinc in it that was "sealed" in by the paint or layer of powder coating.

The other issue is that the paint may have lead or zinc in it and many parrots will be attracted to the blemishes in the paint and try to peel more of the paint off.

Some of my cages have sustained a few very minor blemishes over the years. On my powder coated cages, the metal is steel so I just keep it clean and I'm OK. My guys also don't go after the minute spot or two on the cages. They have enough stuff to play with when they are in their cages.

So you can leave them alone, you just have to be sure of what the underlying metal is. That was a really good question.

Thanks,
Bill

[Wanda and Flock]

This link would say what I would say...BUT, and that is a big BUT, (That sounds funny)...Anyway...

http://qp-society.com/qpserc/paintzinc.html

Baby safe Paints are supposed to be the safest if you allow them to dry for a week or more. Using it as a touch up should cause no problems. For touch ups, forget the wire brush part, just do what I said to clean the spots, let them dry thouroughly and then lightly sand only the spot to give the paint something to adhere to. Don't use a primer. If the cage is to be indoors, the rust wont come back through.

In the meantime, still don't do anything. I want to personally examine some paints at a local paint store to find what would be the safest.

Thanks,
Bill

Okay, I'll wait to hear from you and I will also check the prices at Allied for the sandblasting/re-painting too. Thanks for your help.

[Evelyn]

Bill -

Thanks for the info.

Evelyn

Hi Evelyn,

You can leave it alone but there are two issues. One is what you allude to. Unless the metal is tested, it could have lead or zinc in it that was "sealed" in by the paint or layer of powder coating.

The other issue is that the paint may have lead or zinc in it and many parrots will be attracted to the blemishes in the paint and try to peel more of the paint off.

Some of my cages have sustained a few very minor blemishes over the years. On my powder coated cages, the metal is steel so I just keep it clean and I'm OK. My guys also don't go after the minute spot or two on the cages. They have enough stuff to play with when they are in their cages.

So you can leave them alone, you just have to be sure of what the underlying metal is. That was a really good question.

Thanks,
Bill

[birdscomefirst]

Look for powder coating, not painting if you are going for a big refurb like that.

Powder coating is a baked on plastic.

I would never be convinced , even if a painting place says that the paints are safe for birds that they remotely have a clue. I have yet to find a painting operation that has any idea what is safe to use with birds.

Hopefully, the place you are talking about is a powder coating operation and not simply a painting operation.

If they say they are powder coating, ask them how and at what temperature. If they can't answer that question in a heartbeat, then they are not powder coating and you should steer clear. You have to be extremely careful.

Thanks,
Bill


Okay, I'll wait to hear from you and I will also check the prices at Allied for the sandblasting/re-painting too. Thanks for your help.

[too&me]

The company I recommended does nothing but powder coating as far as I know.