Big Mama going to take you down!!!!

[Anne-Samantha's Mom]

I have been reading various legislation announcements etc about outlawing birdies in certain states and even confiscating them...how stupid and sad...I saw cockatiels on one list...well I am in Canada but think it is ridiclous...so as I sat there last night seeds scattered across two coffee tables the couches, poop everywhere , bits of corn on the kitchen floor, water slopped over the dish we leave out on the coffee table for her to drink from..feathers everywhere and I sat in a bunch of grated carrots that she dragged over to one of my chairs...heck I am sure I have even eaten a big ole piece of poop...it takes forever to clean t his all up every night when you are tired..and sam is on the go go go go go zoom zoom zoom no rest for the wicked..that would be us oldsters who she wears out every day..well I have one thing to say to you confiscators of birdies...you come to the door AND BIG BAD MAMA GOING TO TAKE YOU DOWN. dont care what kind of piece of paper you have in your hand or who you got with you MY ROTTEN BRAT IS STAYING HERE...

[Evelyn]

I know I'm going to draw some people's ire, but can't help it.

As with PETA, some people/organizations carry things to extremes, and use legitimate concerns to further their own agendas.

With that said, however, there are valid reasons for prohibiting the ownership of some birds. As you probably know, Quaker parrots can survive outside. They live in colonies and make huge nests, frequently on top of power poles. It is illegal to own them in some states. In other states you can own them but they must be banded.

Some of the original Quakers probably escaped, but it is thought many more were turned loose by their owners who didn't want them anymore.

Cockatiels are also turned out by their owners, second only to parakeets as birds simply abandoned by their owners. They survive less well than Quakers.

The rationale for outlawing Quakers is that they are a nuisance outside. (Somebody is going to say so are pigeons and starlings, which is true, but doesn't mean Quakers aren't also.

IMHO, a law that makes it illegal to own Quakers, cockatiels and parakeets would at least save some of these birds from being turned out where many would perish because they can't find food, or because it's too cold, or because a predator kills them.

I'm not necessarily in favor of these laws. I am conflicted about them. I rescued a pit bull. Not having had one before, I did a lot of research and discovered what horrific thngs are done to them. It is illegal in some places to own one. In Dade County, Florida, authorities will seize and euthanize any they fine. I am vehemently opposed to that. At the same time, I can't help wondering if outlawing pit bulls wouldn't save the lives of hundreds of thousands of them in the future.

If laws outlawing certain animals are passed, there should certainly be a grandfather clause protecting any of them already here. With pit bulls, a better alternative to banning the breed altogether might be to require owners to register them or post bonds. The problem is not the pit bull who is the family pet--it is the people who fight them; and they form a huge undergrown network.

Grandfathering would also protect birds already here. Passing banning laws restrict our right to own property (despite how some of us feel, animals are considered property under the law); but some people are so stupid and uncaring they will do things like releasing animals or keeping pet tigers.

I guess it's a matter of balancing our right to own property against the stupidity of some people. THe poor animals are caught in the middle.

Evelyn

[Dot]

no rest for the wicked

And the righteous don't need none. :D

Seriously, encourage everyone you know to right and complain about all legislation, be it on dogs or cats because birds will be next.

[too&me]

It is a Quandary-There are studies showing that Quakers have little to no impact on our natives species or natural environment. Now the power transmission lines are another story. The Pit Bull type breed has been both misused and misbred. There are some sweeties & some very dangerous dogs it depends in part how they are trained & in part how strong their natural instinct to fight is in that particular animals make up (DNA). I speak from experience as a dog rescue person and from research. We do seem to be a discard society and it is very sad. We can work as individuals to be the squeakyest wheel for our politicians to shape the laws.

[Evelyn]

Me &Too

I agree.

Evelyn

[Evelyn]

so as I sat there last night seeds scattered across two coffee tables the couches, poop everywhere , bits of corn on the kitchen floor, water slopped over the dish we leave out on the coffee table for her to drink from..feathers everywhere and I sat in a bunch of grated carrots that she dragged over to one of my chairs...heck I am sure I have even eaten a big ole piece of poop.



When did you get into my house? You described it perfectly. Except you forgot the scraps of newspaper on the floor from my E2's hobby of making confetti. :haha:

Evelyn

[Larry, Baby and Me]

"I know I'm going to draw some people's ire, but can't help it."

So - you are saying you lack control? :D

"As with PETA, some people/organizations carry things to extremes, and use legitimate concerns to further their own agendas."

I thought you would come around to seeing it my way. :D

"With that said, however, there are valid reasons for prohibiting the ownership of some birds."

Name me one... Just name me one "valid" reason why legislation should be passed to control us any more than our govts already do?

Imorality, stupidity, disrespect, dishonor, and plain dumbness cannot be legislated away.

I abhor govt stepping on my toes and then getting into my back pocket.

What - do ya think those types will want to control next - our RIGHT to own guns?

"As you probably know, Quaker parrots can survive outside. They live in colonies and make huge nests, frequently on top of power poles. It is illegal to own them in some states. In other states you can own them but they must be banded."

Weak argument here... dogs and cats can and do live outside on their own also. Let's ban all dog and cat ownership. How about horses??? I think they can live outside on their own as well... let's put a ban on them and fine their owners!!!

"Some of the original Quakers probably escaped, but it is thought many more were turned loose by their owners who didn't want them anymore."

Like I said - ya can't legislate against stupidity!

"Cockatiels are also turned out by their owners, second only to parakeets as birds simply abandoned by their owners. They survive less well than Quakers."

With that type of logic - We should ban owning ALL birds that can survive in the climates where they are owned.

"The rationale for outlawing Quakers is that they are a nuisance outside. (Somebody is going to say so are pigeons and starlings, which is true, but doesn't mean Quakers aren't also."

That "rationale" isn't so rational is it? There are CATS that roam my neighborhood - stray and otherwise - that EAT the wild bunny rabbits, eat the birds, eat the birds' eggs in the Spring time, and any other things they can be a preditor to. Cats are a pain in the nuisance! So with that "rationale" - Cats should be the first animal that should be banned from ownership - and the owners should be heavily fined!

"IMHO, a law that makes it illegal to own Quakers, cockatiels and parakeets would at least save some of these birds from being turned out where many would perish because they can't find food, or because it's too cold, or because a predator kills them."

Uhhh??? --- I am not even going to comment on that one. Reference - ya can't legislate against stupidity.

"I'm not necessarily in favor of these laws. I am conflicted about them. I rescued a pit bull. Not having had one before, I did a lot of research and discovered what horrific thngs are done to them. It is illegal in some places to own one. In Dade County, Florida, authorities will seize and euthanize any they fine. I am vehemently opposed to that. At the same time, I can't help wondering if outlawing pit bulls wouldn't save the lives of hundreds of thousands of them in the future."

Awww - the cute and adoring dog Petey in the Little Rascles was a Pit Bull. So - what do people have against the Little Rascles? They are as American as apple pie.

"If laws outlawing certain animals are passed, there should certainly be a grandfather clause protecting any of them already here. With pit bulls, a better alternative to banning the breed altogether might be to require owners to register them or post bonds. The problem is not the pit bull who is the family pet--it is the people who fight them; and they form a huge undergrown network."

Yep - GrandFather and GrandMother - let the attorneys and politicians get their hands in the mix... that's the way to fix things.

"Grandfathering would also protect birds already here. Passing banning laws restrict our right to own property (despite how some of us feel, animals are considered property under the law); but some people are so stupid and uncaring they will do things like releasing animals or keeping pet tigers. "

Reference - ya can't legislate against stupidity. Even though attorneys and politicians do it all the time - and then they tax it!!!

"I guess it's a matter of balancing our right to own property against the stupidity of some people. THe poor animals are caught in the middle."

No balance to it - either I have a right to my property or I don't!

[too&me]

"I know I'm going to draw some people's ire, but can't help it."

"So - you are saying you lack control? :D " Hence the suggestion to become the Squeaky Wheel!! After having 4 kids and dealing with school systems I have learned the worse & heavier handed the parent behaves the more respect your child gets. It is not right that kids who act out then the parents come in & threaten legal procedures or just throw a hissy fit then there are no or reduced consequences. They are not helping that kid to become a functional human. So now what next? Oh Larry I'm certain it is your property but you have to pay for having property, so silly. Aaarrrg!

[Larry, Baby and Me]

They are not helping that kid to become a functional human. So now what next?

Yep - the world has changed - view my posts on "taking you back to the '50s". A more sane era - in the home that is.

During that era - if a kid acted up in school - he wouldn't attend school for a wile because of a sore rear... first andministered by the teacher and then the parent!!!

And while we are on the subject - Don't legislate against me to protect ME against the stupid ones. I will handle my own fights - thank you very much.

We lived in NH for several years - right next to the far-left state of VT. New Hampshire's motto - on everything including license plates and billboards across the State says - "LIVE FREE OR DIE"!

My kinda talk.

They also have a motto that is not published but shouted within private circles... "Gaurd My Shores, Deliver My Mail, And Leave Me To Hell Alone"

My kinda talk as well.

[bonnie]

Imorality, stupidity, disrespect, dishonor, and plain dumbness cannot be legislated away.


That's how I feel about it. Why ruin it for those who do love and take care of their birds? It' not their fault people are unresponsible with thier animal. Also, there is no reason for government to try to control things any more than they do.

[TikiTalks]

"I'm not necessarily in favor of these laws. I am conflicted about them. I rescued a pit bull. Not having had one before, I did a lot of research and discovered what horrific thngs are done to them. It is illegal in some places to own one. In Dade County, Florida, authorities will seize and euthanize any they fine. I am vehemently opposed to that. At the same time, I can't help wondering if outlawing pit bulls wouldn't save the lives of hundreds of thousands of them in the future."

"Awww - the cute and adoring dog Petey in the Little Rascles was a Pit Bull. So - what do people have against the Little Rascles? They are as American as apple pie."

I agree with Larry. Also, not only do I have my tiels and a Quaker that I ADORE but I have a pit bull as well who is the MOST LOVING dog. IF they tried to outlaw my dog from the state I live in, guess what? I'd move. Try to take my birds? I don't think so, I'll move, and then I'll petition, picket, and fight for my right to have the "property" that I love. Larry is correct, you can''t legislate against stupidity. The government has their hands in everything (I'm not like a conspiracy theorist or anything) but everything you do Big Brother knows about. No, they're not watching you in your TV and no, they could care less if the left overs in your fridge are growing things. Their was an article about a microchip put in peoples wrists that held everything, ssn, payroll info everything.. it was how a small town in some foreign country (it was being 'tested') did everything. I don't know what ya'll believe, but telling me what pet I can share my life with is juist like that little microchip. It's not to protect children, that's the parents job! that's my job as a dog owner to make sure my animal is socialized and realizes children are your friend, not a meal! That little microchip is a way to control.. and so is the act of banning an animal.

[Evelyn]

"I know I'm going to draw some people's ire, but can't help it."

So - you are saying you lack control? :D

:mad: No. I'm saying that it is more important to me to try to enlighten people.

"As with PETA, some people/organizations carry things to extremes, and use legitimate concerns to further their own agendas."

I thought you would come around to seeing it my way. :D

:mad: If you are serious in this statement, then you did not thoroughly read my emals regarding PETA. I admit PETA is extreme, but I also contend that, whether they mean to or not, they do some good for animals sometimes.

"With that said, however, there are valid reasons for prohibiting the ownership of some birds."

Name me one... Just name me one "valid" reason why legislation should be passed to control us any more than our govts already do?

Imorality, stupidity, disrespect, dishonor, and plain dumbness cannot be legislated away.

I abhor govt stepping on my toes and then getting into my back pocket.

What - do ya think those types will want to control next - our RIGHT to own guns?

:mad: You are missing the point. This isn't about you (meaning humans). It's about the animals.

"As you probably know, Quaker parrots can survive outside. They live in colonies and make huge nests, frequently on top of power poles. It is illegal to own them in some states. In other states you can own them but they must be banded."

Weak argument here... dogs and cats can and do live outside on their own also. Let's ban all dog and cat ownership. How about horses??? I think they can live outside on their own as well... let's put a ban on them and fine their owners!!!

:mad: We aren't talking about dogs and cats or horses. They don't build huge nests atop power poles. And, as a matter of fact, I don't think dogs and cats ought to live outside. What's the point of having an outside dog (except for real working dogs, and even they ought to be inside sometimes).

"Some of the original Quakers probably escaped, but it is thought many more were turned loose by their owners who didn't want them anymore."

Like I said - ya can't legislate against stupidity!

:mad: Unfortunately, some people are so stupid, they need to be protected from themselves, and animals should certainly be protected from them. There is no perfect solution, so we just have to do the best we can and try to learn more.

"Cockatiels are also turned out by their owners, second only to parakeets as birds simply abandoned by their owners. They survive less well than Quakers."

With that type of logic - We should ban owning ALL birds that can survive in the climates where they are owned.

:mad: You would drive a logic teacher crazy. That's the old "open the floodgates" argument. Also, it isn't relevant to the point being debated whether or not the animal could survive outside.

"The rationale for outlawing Quakers is that they are a nuisance outside. (Somebody is going to say so are pigeons and starlings, which is true, but doesn't mean Quakers aren't also."

That "rationale" isn't so rational is it? There are CATS that roam my neighborhood - stray and otherwise - that EAT the wild bunny rabbits, eat the birds, eat the birds' eggs in the Spring time, and any other things they can be a preditor to. Cats are a pain in the nuisance! So with that "rationale" - Cats should be the first animal that should be banned from ownership - and the owners should be heavily fined!

:mad: Ah! The bird banning isn't intended to protect rabbits and birds. It's meant to prevent humans from being inconvenienced by having their power out temporarily. The fact that it might prevent the death of some Quakers in the future is just a by-product.

"IMHO, a law that makes it illegal to own Quakers, cockatiels and parakeets would at least save some of these birds from being turned out where many would perish because they can't find food, or because it's too cold, or because a predator kills them."

Uhhh??? --- I am not even going to comment on that one. Reference - ya can't legislate against stupidity.

:mad: Not going to comment, or don't have a valid response?

"I'm not necessarily in favor of these laws. I am conflicted about them. I rescued a pit bull. Not having had one before, I did a lot of research and discovered what horrific thngs are done to them. It is illegal in some places to own one. In Dade County, Florida, authorities will seize and euthanize any they fine. I am vehemently opposed to that. At the same time, I can't help wondering if outlawing pit bulls wouldn't save the lives of hundreds of thousands of them in the future."

Awww - the cute and adoring dog Petey in the Little Rascles was a Pit Bull. So - what do people have against the Little Rascles? They are as American as apple pie.


UH OH! I've reached the limit of the number of icons I can use. Who made up that rule about limiting them to 10? Anyway, for the rest of this post, my answers will have horizontal lines above and below.

_____________________
Pit bull terriers used to be a very popular family dog. They are frequently seen in old portraits of people, especially kids. Several of them have been honored in special ways. One of them was in the armed services (not mine-detecting like we see dogs being USED today). Even the fighting pit bulls are encouraged to be people-friendly. They are just supposed to be dog aggressive. Unfortunately, some stupd people (including our home-town hero, quarterback Michael Vick) don't train them properly. They want vicious dogs. The dogs are extensions of or substitutions for, their inadequate peckers, like fast cars.

I believe my pit bull would fight to the death to protect me if he thought I was in danger, but he is one of the sweetest, most cuddly dogs I have ever had.
_________________________

"If laws outlawing certain animals are passed, there should certainly be a grandfather clause protecting any of them already here. With pit bulls, a better alternative to banning the breed altogether might be to require owners to register them or post bonds. The problem is not the pit bull who is the family pet--it is the people who fight them; and they form a huge undergrown network."

Yep - GrandFather and GrandMother - let the attorneys and politicians get their hands in the mix... that's the way to fix things.

________________________________

Grandfathering is one way of getting around the ex post facto prohibition. If such laws are passed, it is patently unfair to apply them retroactively.
______________________________

"Grandfathering would also protect birds already here. Passing banning laws restrict our right to own property (despite how some of us feel, animals are considered property under the law); but some people are so stupid and uncaring they will do things like releasing animals or keeping pet tigers. "

Reference - ya can't legislate against stupidity. Even though attorneys and politicians do it all the time - and then they tax it!!!

___________________________________

Some people need protection from themselves, but more importantly, animals need protection from most people.
____________________________________

"I guess it's a matter of balancing our right to own property against the stupidity of some people. THe poor animals are caught in the middle."

No balance to it - either I have a right to my property or I don't!

____________________________

Morally speaking, animals are not property--at least sentient animals are not. It is the attitude of people who consider animals property that makes it necessary to have laws protecting them.

And speaking practically, you don't have an absolute right to anything--not your life or your property or your privacy.
______________________________

Larry - the icon is merely a way to set apart my responses, since I don't know how to change the color of the text. It doesn't mean I am angry at you.

I was at a Bird Club Convention last year when the subject of requiring breeders to keep records came up. You would have thought somebody suggested shooting all their birds. They didn't care about the advantages of record-keeping. They just didn't want anything that might increase their cost of doing business. One man there had 700 breeding pairs of birds.

You can't even hybridize a new variety of orchid without identifying the cross, and keeping that ID on the plant. You could, I suppose, but the plants would be "orphans" and hardly anybody would be interested in them.

I want to know who bred my birds, who the parents were and their parents. How do you know whether or not you are breeding birds with genetic defects?

OK. I'm climbing off my soapbox now. Just please, before you slam the door, at least look to see who or what is behind it.

Evelyn

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Evelyn,

I can only say one thing to all the you have to say on this matter.... Raspberries :blab:

[TikiTalks]

Evelyn,
I think being responsible is a good thing! With my pit bull, great have me register her, even have people come by and play with her to make sure she's safe!(she'd love it.. as long as they have a ball!) You can't yell at this dog without feeling like a cad because she looks so sad! (I'll have to get a pic of her if she does something naughty to show you all, it's SOOOO depressing but sooooo adorable at the same time)

My Quaker is not banded, so I don't know where he came from except he was rescued by Anna and he is the SWEETEST Q I've ever heard of! when he bites, he doesn't even draw blood he just.. beaks. and usually it's because he's a tad nervous!

I don't mind legislation saying "keep track of your animals" I agree with that. I do mind them saying "you can't have this pet" THAT I mind. My pets are my children. I can't wait til I finally buy my house and can ACTUALLY have my dogs with me every day! AND have an aviary!

[too&me]

None of us want to see birds or animals removed from homes or wherever they have landed in the wild & euthanized! That is just wrong.

[Anne-Samantha's Mom]

hey guys i agree and disagree..both..I think the laws can be carried too far.. be responsible..and i have the same thing to say as i said before...take my birdie..BIG MAMA GOING TO TAK E YOU DOWN..

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

[quote=Larry, Baby and Me;4530]Yep -
We lived in NH for several years - right next to the far-left state of VT. New Hampshire's motto - on everything including license plates and billboards across the State says - "LIVE FREE OR DIE"!

Do you remember the controversy over the couple that covered it up on their license plate and were pulled over and ticketed for it? That wound up in court as a rights issue - I think the couple won.

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Hey Anne - I want you Big Momma on my side when they come to "try" to take Baby away from me and gas her. My kinda Gal!

Hey Patty - Wasn't that the couple from Mass - Ted Kennedy's liberal state - who were living in Nashua, NH??? And the slimy ACLU bunch from NY and VA came in to tell the NH citizens how to run their state???

[Evelyn]

Evelyn,

I can only say one thing to all the you have to say on this matter.... Raspberries :blab:


Oh, Larry -

I wish I could say that in Court instead of having to present a rational argument to support my case.

I give up on having a meaningful dialogue with you on any subject about which we have a difference of opinion. We should probably just agree to disagree and avoid those subjects. :rolleyes:

Evelyn

[TikiTalks]

Lol. Larry you're too much sweetie.

[too&me]

It is such a shame that we have no one here who will express any opinions. We are such a wishy washy bunch. Thank heavens for this forum so we can express ourselves and educate others or at least open their eyes to some of these issues. Good on you!