overpreaning and diet

[Markman]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and I have a problem I am dealing with.
I have a 4 year old U2, female, by herself in a large cage and a well lit area. There are no kids and few visitors (my life in the country). It's just my wife and I.
We pay a large amount of attention to our bird, she is out nearly every day and seems content and happy. I mist her down every day with an aloe/and water base spray. The cage is kept clean everyday...except weekends and I may slip a little there. She recently has had a check up at the local vets and everything normal including her skin.

Here is the problem and getting worse. She seems to be over preaning. She isn't plucking her feathers, but mashing them. It's hard to tell what are feathers and what is fluff. She chews her chesk, back and shoulders continually. I try scolding her, but has no effect.

I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong or what to change. One bad thing is I still hand feed her every nite, formula. Yeah, I know and I wonder if that is causing a problem nutrition wise. She also eats her wait in small bite size peanut butter cookies. I do off her pellets and seed mix but I either can't get her to eat it or she doesn't want it. One person suggested the diet is the problem?? I want to get another bird ...green wing macaw but don't know if I should until I get this problem under control. I have talked to other vets, but they say its behavioral. I think they say that as a catch all when they really don't know. Hence me visiting the site in hope someone else has seen this and even better what to do about it? I have even put "Listerine" in her misting spray to hope to spoil her taste in her mouth/tongue as she preans....wrong didn't phase her at all.

So I ask for any help on this situation???

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Hey Markman,

I am really pressed for time right now... I just wanted to quiclky let you know that I also have a 4-1/2 year old Umbie hen that is a plucker.

1. Use the George's straight - no dilution - spray every other day.
2. Spray every 3rd day with distilled water.... drench.
4. Never spray anyhting else but George's and water - Never spray Listerine.
5. Never put additives in water or food.
6. Much is not known about plucking except to say we have wild birds in our home which is totally unatural for them in environment, flock behavior and diet.

I will talk about foraging and the such a bit later.

I just wanted you to know that I read your post and will share some more with you.

[bonnie]

There will be people coming that can answer your questions better, but how much formula do you give her? I have heard that older birds should not get much formula. I think Evelyn is the one that knows about this. She'll be on in a while.

[too&me]

Welcome Markman. My umbie does some over grooming also it is called feather barbering. The formula you are feeding does contain the wrong balance of nutrients for an adult bird it provides too much phosphorus & too much protein. The cookies need to stop. Peanuts are not a natural food for them as they are tree dwellers not ground foragers & many birds have an allergy or sensitivity to them which can show up as irritated itchy skin. Evelyn & Don are better at nutrition questions then me. Your girl should be offered fresh veggies or thawed frozen or cooked & mashed with no salt which you can substitute or the formula. Stick around & more help will appear for you & bird girl.

[Dot]

I have asked my friend Jenell to come post. She is well read in this area.

I promise you this, the bird picks up on your vibes and the more you worry, the more the bird will over-preen. That is first hand experience.

There is probably too much protein in the formula, but wait for a breeder to comment on that.

When my Scarlet started over-preening, I had run out of nuts, a prime source of Essential Fatty Acids. Just google "Essential Fatty Acids+ parrots" for plenty of information.

I hung sisal and sea grass rope in the cage and on playstands for my Scarlet. She could not move without hitting it. She started to shred that instead of her feathers. She has six or seven foraging toys in her cage to keep her busy. Research by Dr. Meecham at UCDavis shows that parrots in her study would rather work to get a nut than have one handed to them.

I am posting below a list of sources for foraging toys.

http://www.itsagreysworld.com/home.html

Above is to It's a Grey's World

http://www.greyfeathertoys.com/

Above is to Grey Feathers for toys and toy parts. Definitely get a Busy Birdie Ball.



http://www.parrotcompany.com/plucking.html

Above is to UNDERSTANDING FEATHER PLUCKING IN PARROTS - A BEHAVIOURAL ECOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE

http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/ihang.htm

Above is to The ToyMaker

http://www.parrotpleasures.com/

Above is to toys for pluckers. (I just found it and know nothing about it.)

http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/ihang.htm

Above is to BirdsnWays The ToyMaker - Make Your Own Bird Toys
Hanging Bird Toys

[Larry, Baby and Me]

We all have to be conscience to match the toy to the bird. Often times it is not the size of the toy and its parts matched to the size of the bird but what the bird does with the toy.

Different species behave in their own way and even birds of the same species are a bit different from each other. Umbies are known chewers. So - toys that might be okay for a Zon or even a large Macaw might not be appropriate for an agressive chewer such as an Umbie.

Toys that have plastic and string described in some making your own toy artilces I have read would not be good for an Umbie. In my opinion, string, twine, yarn, and any other small diameter material is something that a bird - no matter the size or species can strangle itself with. Sizzle "rope" and weeping rope are fine - but you must always check for frays and ends that have come undone. A small filiment of rope can get wrapped around a toe and cut off the circulation to the point that the toe will be lost.

Bottom line - we just have to be aware and constantly inspect the toys for hazards and inspect the bird for problems.

[Dot]

We all have to be conscience to match the toy to the bird. Often times it is not the size of the toy and its parts matched to the size of the bird but what the bird does with the toy.

Different species behave in their own way and even birds of the same species are a bit different from each other. Umbies are known chewers. So - toys that might be okay for a Zon or even a large Macaw might not be appropriate for an agressive chewer such as an Umbie.

Toys that have plastic and string described in some making your own toy artilces I have read would not be good for an Umbie. In my opinion, string, twine, yarn, and any other small diameter material is something that a bird - no matter the size or species can strangle itself with. Sizzle "rope" and weeping rope are fine - but you must always check for frays and ends that have come undone. A small filiment of rope can get wrapped around a toe and cut off the circulation to the point that the toe will be lost.

Bottom line - we just have to be aware and constantly inspect the toys for hazards and inspect the bird for problems.

You need a RFM. You have to check every Quick link each day. :haha:

[Larry, Baby and Me]

That's like Baby - she has a pair of vice grips for a nose.

[Dot]

Jenell, for some unknown reason, cannot access this site. She wrote this and asked me to copy and paste it. I had written her and asked for her input.

I have been researching plucking for several years. I nor anyone else can tell you the reason but I can tell you what has and has not worked. There is a book that was published in Germany. This author had macaws and all started plucking, clipping, etc by the time they were three years old. He noticed the macaws in the zoo did not. He compared their diet etc and came to the conclusion that the difference was the macaws in the zoo got salty treats and his did not. I tried this after discussing it with my avian vet. Even though he would not suggest this to any of his clients, he was curious. I offered clean water in the cage at all times. I also placed a bowl of water with a few grains of aquarium salt dissolved. After a week, my bird quit the over preening. My bird is a M2 and gives me a run for my money. I have noticed when their is a blood feather coming in, it apparently hurts. She will begin to pick at it and over time she will irritate the skin. Once the skin is irritated, she will not leave it alone. She is collared until the spot is well. She has been collared for 12 months at a time. My vet believes the overpreening will become habitual and the habit needs to be broken. She can even fly in her collar. Diet is very important. I feed fresh veggies, fruits, sprouts, seeds and nuts every day. I feed the fresh stuff in the am and the seeds/nut in the afternoon. I had a macaw that is not a plucker. I recently ran an experiment. I added some pellets into the diet and increased the amount daily. Within two weeks, she clipped her chest feathers. I threw all the pellets out and will not feed. As soon as the pellets were taken away, the macaw stopped. The pellets were a brand that most vets sell. I have also found out the M2 reacts to water. My vet after a year of study said she has to be blown dry. Any chemicals in the water will not be absorbed into the skin. I have now found that their are other bird owners that have this same problem. They have installed RO systems or use distilled water. Use a lot of shredding toys such as pinatas. You want them to transfer their need to pluck to another object. I assume you have had blood test because disease can also cause this behavior. I hope this will give you some guidance. Jenell P

[FoxersArtist]

It was so nice to see so many posts regarding this issue.

The very first thing I have to say is that you should never yell at your bird. Birds do not distinguish between positive and negative attention. It's all attention to them and getting attention for plucking or shredding feathers will only increase the behavior. Also your bird will feed off of your energy and if you are frustrated around her, she will feel frustrated also, which is also likely to increas the shredding.

I think that it is safe to say that many different bird owners do things many different ways and go about solving any problems that may arise in different ways. That being said, I can only really share with you what has worked for me. Our bare eyed cockatoo was butchering his feathers when we adopted him and is now in perfect feather condition. Here is what I would do if I were in your situation.

1) Take the bird to an avian vet for a health check up. Sometimes toxins in the bird's system will cause them to pluck, as well as parasites, fungal and/or bacterial infections, etc.

2) Stop feeding your bird COOKIES and try to wean her off of formula. You can do this by mixing the formula thicker and rolling it into balls. The thicker formula will help her to decide she wants to be a big girl and eat more solid foods. Just be sure not to leave the formula out for very long as it will spoil. We offer fresh pellets at all times and have had fabulous luck with this. We also offer some seed, nuts and a variety of fresh foods.

3) Bathe your bird once per day but make sure she gets a good soaking at least once a week.

4) Allow your bird plenty of out of cage time EVERY day. Reserve AT LEAST 15-20 minutes of face to face time with your girl every single day.

5) Hang multiple toys inside her cage that are easy to chew. Try to find hard wood as well as soft wood toys, toys that she can preen, and toys that will keep her occupied for longer periods of time.

6) If she has a cage smaller than 3ft X 4ft X 6ft, try to replace it with a cage that is at least this size and fill it with a variety of perches.

7) Never pay attention to her when you catch her messing with her feathers.

8) Give her as much stimulation as possible. Sing to her, dance with her, do flight arrobics with her, wind her up and let her get silly and scream at least once a day.

These are all things we have done with birds who pluck and we have noticed an amazing difference. I think that your bird may very well be having some dietary issues as well as emotional. Good luck.
-Anna

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Anna,

That is great information. Thanks.

As you folks know - my Baby plucks. She is a 4-1/2 year old Umbie hen. She started plucking when she was a little over 2 years old. But looking back on some things - she clipped her tail feathers when she was one year old.

I thought at the time she was hitting her tail feathers on the bars of the cage. Her cage she had at that time was too small for her - so I thought that was the cause. But now that I know more about plucking and feather destruction I can clearly see that she nipped her tail feathers. At one point she had no tail feathers left. I called her Duck Butt. I didn't think she would ever grow her tail feathers back - but she did and now they are beautiful

She plucks her chest and legs until they are now bare. When this all started I noticed that she first plucked her legs. And then after a period of time she progressed to her chest and then to under her wings. As of late she has worked some on the top of her wing at the downy feathers there.

I have tried just about everything with limited success. I have read and researched everything and have become more confused than ever. The success stories that I have read - such as Anna's Benny - are birds that have been re-homed, taken from a less than desireable environment such as neglect and abuse at the hands of the previous owner. And when better care, attention, and diet are introduced - the plucking either subsides or stops altogether.

Baby is not a re-home. We got her at about 5 months old. We Have always tried our best with her. WIth Baby and her plucking... I have felt guilty, ashamed, and sad - all at the same time. I am not ashamed of Baby - but myself for not takeing better care of her. Now - let me say this... My wife and I do not neglect Baby - we take the best care of her that we know how. But - I am responsible for her wellbeing. And by looking at her - one would think she is being abused.

I have come to the conclusion that the reason birds pluck is because they are in captivity. They in an un-natural environment all the way around. No matter how hard we try, there is no way possible for us to duplicate their environment in the wild within our homes. But saying that - most birds in captivity do not pluck.

Some species are more prone to plucking than others. Cockatoos are the most prone followed by Greys and "some" Macaw species. The Cockatoos and the Greys are Old World birds whereas the Macaws are New World birds. So there is no corrilation in what part of the world they come from as some "experts" have suggested.

Dot... Jennel's post you shared with us is a bit confusing in what she says.

"He compared their diet etc and came to the conclusion that the difference was the macaws in the zoo got salty treats and his did not."

"I offered clean water in the cage at all times. I also placed a bowl of water with a few grains of aquarium salt dissolved. After a week, my bird quit the over preening."

I would be interested to know the progress as time goes on. I too have tried a variety of "things" with initial success but Baby goes right to plucking. So - before I trust adding salt to Baby's drinking water - I want to know how the long term outcome is with Jenell's M2.

"My vet after a year of study said she has to be blown dry. Any chemicals in the water will not be absorbed into the skin."

I don't understand what she is trying to say with blow drying and chemicals absorbed into the skin. Could you please contact her and ask her to explain?

"I have now found that their are other bird owners that have this same problem. They have installed RO systems or use distilled water."

I need clarification here as well. Is she talking about feeding distilled water or is she talking about bathing the bird with distilled water??? Because if she is suggesting on feeding the bird distilled water - I disagree.

[EasySpirit]

Sorry about the plucking Larry...I have a couple here also...goffin and seasonally the Queen of Bavaria. Other toos, greys and ekkie are all fine. So I also don't know what it is. Oh, and my goffin is flighted. He leaves enough of his flight feathers alone so he can fly. He also is not caged (unless I go away for a weekend) There are perches throughout the house and he is good about flying to them.

Regrding water. I suspect you may want to bath/mist bird with distilled water. Cities vary with the amount of chlorine in the water. The birds don't need the chlorine for healthy teeth. Those of us who were are swimmers knows how much chlorine dries out our skin and hair.

Regarding salt. I did read somewhere about CAGS needing some salt. Watching one of the videos on birds it showed CAGs in large groups (not a one person type of bird people want to make them out to be) and they were foraging ON THE GROUND at the edge of a waterhole digging in the dirt and eating scrub grass as the elephants were in the background. I suspect they were getting some nutrients from food in this setting. Someone mentioned giving your bird celery as it does have some salt content. I think I would rather do this than add salt to water. I hate messing with a water supply. In the wild they could get water in different places. I also believe animals self regulate their nutritional needs based on what is needed at the time. Salt in the water takes away if they need it or not.

Why I think people and animals self regulate the needs is based on what we have seen in people. An example is the mystery of the missing dirt in plant pots on a pediatric unit. It wasn't everywhere, just one area. It turned out that kids who received dialysis were eating the dirt. They were dialized too much or not enough of essential nutrients added back in. Once on a better schedule, the dirt eating stopped.

[Markman]

Thank you to all! I am so impressed by the various "bird" people wanting to help!
I was surprised about the water, using RO. I would imagine, distilled also would work or at least better than tap.
Seems like I have at least 2 things I need to do from what the various responses. First to take the additives out of the water, including Aloe I have added, to increase the number of dousing bathes she gets rather than just a lite misting every day. Secondly, which I knew was coming, to get her off the formula and peanuts. That will be hard to do! She has a "sweet beak" and loves the peanut butter either in small dot sized cookies or what I have been doing, putting some in with her pellets. I did think about allergies to peanuts but wasn't sure. We use to offer her fresh veggies and fruits every day with a course of pellets but she would just throw them out. I have started out cutting her back on the formula. I was feeding her a plastic cup full that comes with the Kaytee formula. I am guessing about 50mls. Now I have cut it back to about 40 within a week and will hopefully to 20-30mls next week.
I was so convinced it was a matter of having another bird to keep her company during the day but now, I am not so sure from your responses.
She,"Bea" gets plenty of attention and I couldn't understand when people keep telling me behavior problem when she is completely spoiled and no neglect whatsoever.
I now do wonder if she is actually overpreening or barbering her feathers?
I am not sure what the difference is, other than she is not bald yet, just the feathers look rattered and tattered.
It all started about a year ago after "Bea" visited the vets for a trimming and came home. The next morning when we took the cover off, was a large pile of feather snipetts! She is a good vet and thought it was a reaction from the trim. We have not clipped her since and she is fully flighted. I am anxious now to put this information I have gained to practice and will let this group/forum know how the overpreening or barbaring goes!
Thanks to all!
Mark

[Dot]

Mark

It all started about a year ago after "Bea" visited the vets for a trimming and came home.

Mark, Fergie's (Scarlet) overpreening started after a feather trim too. I can't post a photo from Webshots, so I hope this opens for you. I can't find their Community page either.

You can look at the first photo of Fergie. While grooming, she just barbers off some of the feather.

Thank God that is over. Make sure she is getting plenty fatty essential acids, and above all, show no reaction. You'll still love her if she is bald, right? Then forget it. It came to the point that either I had to get rid of Fergie for my health's sake or just ignore her. I ignored her and the behavior stopped. I don't think it would have continued for as long as it did if I had not over-reacted so much.

Good luck.

http://pets.webshots.com/album/93065915eUVKKu

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Please read this article I just found. Here is the reader's digest version...

One suggestion that should be given serious consideration is not clipping the wings of birds that mutilate their feathers, especially the flight feathers. The rationale for this recommendation is that feather-picking birds need no excuse to be destructive to their feathers; this procedure usually provides one. Though wing-trimming is not disfiguring, it does involve trimming of the largest and longest of the bird's feathers. Feather pickers or birds prone to this vice soon discover these altered feathers and begin to methodically and obsessively chew and split that part of the quill that remains of the clipped feathers. The result of this mutilation is a series of frayed feather quills that rarely drop out during the next molt and tend to be retained indefinitely.

Here is the link...

http://www.multiscope.com/hotspot/featherpicking.htm

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Mark,

I would have your bird X-rayed to check if there is any metal in its gizzard.

Metal posions in addition to lead and zinc are leading causes of feather destruction.

[too&me]

You can also give her an occasional treat of non sweetened & non salted Almond or Cashew butter instead. You can find that at most health food stores.

[Evelyn]

Markman -

You've gotten lots of good advice, but I like things short and sweet, so:

I think your bird is either itching, or is bored or is stressed.

(A) The itchiness could come from:

(1) Some external parasite (not really likely unless you have her outdoors a lot). You won't be able to see them, but your vet should have looked. DO NOT use any commercial product for mites or lice, etc.

(2) An allergy to something she is eating or breathing in. Without changing her diet, I would start eliminating foods one at a time. Wait a few days before you eliminate another one. You might be able to isolate the food she is allergic to, if that is the problem. I would start with the cookies. She should not be getting these anyway. Too much fat in a bird's diet often leads to fatty liver disease. If she loves them, then use a piece of one as a treat now and then.

After you rule out that it is not a food allergy, then I would consider that she may be breathing something in that is causing the plucking. Move her to another room for a few days where the air is different (no fumes, smoking, cooking, candles, room deoderizers or anything in an aerosol container).

If that doesn't help, then you have probably tried everything reasonable for you to try and it's time to look to other things such as possible zinc poisoning.

(3) New feathers coming in. If you don't already know, new feathers have a covering on them which the bird usually removes by preening itself or having another bird preening her. There are some places a bird cannot reach. Look at any new feathers and see if you see the coating. If you do, gently rub it with your fingers. If the covering is ready to come off, it will break apart as you rub it. If your bird will allow you to preen her, then look for more of the coating. Most birds like their humans to preen them. It is also a way of bonding.

(B) Boredom

Bird who are bored will frequently pluck. If the bird isn't somewhere where she is in the midst of everything, where she sees people all the time, then try moving her cage to where she is.

Does she pluck when outside her cage? If not, then it is probably boredom. Make sure she has plenty of toys and change them frequently (I like weekly). She should especially have lots of wood toys to chew on. Mine make toothpicks every day out of pieces of wood. I usually buy the wooden toys that hang up and have lots of hanging wood blocks on them. The bigger, the better (within reason). I can't remember if you said whether she has a playstand. If not, I would get her one. It's someplace different to be.

Get her several forage toys (you put food in there and she has to get it out). Parrots have to find their food in the wild, and we give it to them in bowls and they don't have to do anything. That can also lead to boredom. It's not good that she doesn't eat fresh fruits and veggies. Have you tried (or if not, can you tolerate) having her eat at the table with you. Mine always want some of whatever I am eating. If she doesn't like them raw, then try steaming them (without butter or salt). If she doesn't like them that way, then see if she will eat a little of it cooked. Juice is a good way for them to get the benefit of fruit. Fruit isn't as important as the veggies.

With a dog or cat who won't eat, you can just keep it available with the idea that they won't starve themselves to death. A bird will sometimes starve itself to death if it doesn't like the food you are giving her.

(C) Stress

A stressed bird will frequently pluck. Has anything in your household changed: somebody moved in or out, you brought in or elminating another pet, you moved to another location, you changed the location of her cage, you are nervous or upset about something.

Are you sure she is getting enough attention. Cockatoos need more affection that any other kind of parrot. Can you have her with you when you are doing chores around the house? Take a shower with her; let her watch while you are on the computer.

Is she getting enough exercise? Caged birds usually don't. IF she is flighted, can you let her fly around the house (making sure there is nothing she could injure herself on, such as ceiling fans, windows (close drapes) so she won't fly into them;and making sure she can't get outside. You can let her play on the floor (watch her, though, so she doesn't chew cords or get stepped on).


This isn't all-encompassing, but together with the other suggestions on the board, it gives you something to try. If none of that works, then get the bird to a certified avian specialist.

Evelyn

[FoxersArtist]

Anna,

That is great information. Thanks.

As you folks know - my Baby plucks. She is a 4-1/2 year old Umbie hen. She started plucking when she was a little over 2 years old. But looking back on some things - she clipped her tail feathers when she was one year old.

I thought at the time she was hitting her tail feathers on the bars of the cage. Her cage she had at that time was too small for her - so I thought that was the cause. But now that I know more about plucking and feather destruction I can clearly see that she nipped her tail feathers. At one point she had no tail feathers left. I called her Duck Butt. I didn't think she would ever grow her tail feathers back - but she did and now they are beautiful

She plucks her chest and legs until they are now bare. When this all started I noticed that she first plucked her legs. And then after a period of time she progressed to her chest and then to under her wings. As of late she has worked some on the top of her wing at the downy feathers there.

I have tried just about everything with limited success. I have read and researched everything and have become more confused than ever. The success stories that I have read - such as Anna's Benny - are birds that have been re-homed, taken from a less than desireable environment such as neglect and abuse at the hands of the previous owner. And when better care, attention, and diet are introduced - the plucking either subsides or stops altogether.

Baby is not a re-home. We got her at about 5 months old. We Have always tried our best with her. WIth Baby and her plucking... I have felt guilty, ashamed, and sad - all at the same time. I am not ashamed of Baby - but myself for not takeing better care of her. Now - let me say this... My wife and I do not neglect Baby - we take the best care of her that we know how. But - I am responsible for her wellbeing. And by looking at her - one would think she is being abused.

I have come to the conclusion that the reason birds pluck is because they are in captivity. They in an un-natural environment all the way around. No matter how hard we try, there is no way possible for us to duplicate their environment in the wild within our homes. But saying that - most birds in captivity do not pluck.

Some species are more prone to plucking than others. Cockatoos are the most prone followed by Greys and "some" Macaw species. The Cockatoos and the Greys are Old World birds whereas the Macaws are New World birds. So there is no corrilation in what part of the world they come from as some "experts" have suggested.

Dot... Jennel's post you shared with us is a bit confusing in what she says.

"He compared their diet etc and came to the conclusion that the difference was the macaws in the zoo got salty treats and his did not."

"I offered clean water in the cage at all times. I also placed a bowl of water with a few grains of aquarium salt dissolved. After a week, my bird quit the over preening."

I would be interested to know the progress as time goes on. I too have tried a variety of "things" with initial success but Baby goes right to plucking. So - before I trust adding salt to Baby's drinking water - I want to know how the long term outcome is with Jenell's M2.

"My vet after a year of study said she has to be blown dry. Any chemicals in the water will not be absorbed into the skin."

I don't understand what she is trying to say with blow drying and chemicals absorbed into the skin. Could you please contact her and ask her to explain?

"I have now found that their are other bird owners that have this same problem. They have installed RO systems or use distilled water."

I need clarification here as well. Is she talking about feeding distilled water or is she talking about bathing the bird with distilled water??? Because if she is suggesting on feeding the bird distilled water - I disagree.

Larry,
I just had a really random idea about Baby's plucking and thought I might share. Have you ever considered leaving Baby with someone who is very knowledgable about birds and trustworthy for a period of time? It might sound a little "out there" but I have seen a lot of progress with birds when they are suddenly taken out of their evnironment for a while, even if the environment was loving. Screamers stop screaming, pluckers stop plucking, diets can be changed, etc. I think on some level, their biological clocks have an oppertunity to reset and they just end up falling back on the basics of how to be a bird. Obviously she would have to go to someone who really knew a lot about birds. The only times where i'm not quite sure this would work are when dealing with hormonal issues or as you have mentioned, a reaction to something toxic in the system.

Also, while I'm on this subject, I believe that some birds pluck and scream because they are over loved and don't know how to cope with all the attention. I'm not saying this is the case with Baby just to be clear, but with some birds, over-loving them will get the ball rolling for future distruction. I think even breeders can cause a chain reaction that wont show up until a later time because they did not give their babies the oppertunity to be independent. I wanted to mention this because of what Dot said about worrying over her macaws barbering. As soon as she stopped obcessing, the bird stopped barbering. They are very sensitive toward our emotions. So...to tie this together with the above peragraph, while the parrot is off experiencing a new environment and resetting himself, it is also key that the bird's owner evaluate themselves in order to make any changes needed so that when the bird comes back, it will be more likely to keep problems like plucking and screaming at a minimum.

Does any of this make sense at all or am I babbling nonesense?

-Anna

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Anna,

You are not babbling at all, and in fact I have thought about that very thing.

There could be a connection within a bird's present environment - physical or emotional that could contribute to plucking. Having a bird stay at another home for a while would be something like sending a kid to summer camp or to spend the summer with Aunt and Uncle on their farm. A whole new environment sometimes changes kids for the better.

The reason I have thought about a change in Baby's environment is because of the success stories I have read about some re-homes becoming full feathered while in their new home.

It could be something as simple as a new diet, other birds in the home to enrich the bird's life, maybe even a change in music that is played.... who knows.

The problem is - new feathers sometimes take months or even a year or more to come in - even if the bird stops plucking out the new ones. So - a long term stay away from us is something we would have a difficult time considering.

[bphslp]

The RO units remove chemicals from the water. The system that I use is a small unit that is used for drinking water. Their are some units that have been used throughout houses as well as a water softner unit. This would depend on the type of water your city offers. I know they sell filters for showers which is something I want to check into for showering.

I did not add salt to the toos drinking water. They had clean drinking water in their cage at all times. I offered an additional bowl of water with a few grains of aquarium salt. If the bird desires to drink the salty water, they will. I noticed a complete change in behavior. I ordered the clay that is duplicated on the clay licks. The macaws seem to love it. The toos will not touch it.........another interesting observaton. The only common factor between the toos and macaws in my opinion is that they are both deemed exotic.

I believe that my city has bad water. My toos began to pluck heavily shortly after their showers. By blow drying the bird, the chemicals from the water are NOT absorbed into the skin. I have used RO water when I mist, but I want to mist with distilled water. I want to apply this theory to see if their is any type of reaction.

I might add that a bird can feel every feather in their body. If they hurt a feather through injury, they will not leave it alone. Day after day of picking at the feather can lead to piercing the skin which needs immediate attention.

Do not spray any thing on the feathers but water. My vet has seen more sick birds resulting from remedies sprayed on feathers. If your bird needs medical attention, get it from the vet.

In the wild, the female too is fed by the male. I think what is interesting, I offered comfort feedings to the female for two years. During this time, she did not pluck. I took these feedings away and have observed feather destruction for two years.

Do not apply any theory to your bird unless you run it by a vet. I also advise if your bird is clipping, barbering etc........get a basic blood test. This test will let the vet know if any additional test are necessary. Not so long ago, my bird quit eating, no poos, etc. We rushed Touche to the vet. Of course, he chose a Saturday to exhibit his illness. Almost $400 later, we found out, he had a bad day. They can have a bad day in the bird world.

I have my birds on what I feel is a healthy diet. I know one might let them have a bite of a cookie, but I would not give them cookies on a regular basis. I bet your bird might like a pinenut or a small hunk of wheat bread. Jenell

[bphslp]

The observation from Easy Spirit of dirt eating in children. In the wild birds eat dirt to neutralize the poisons that they injest. Unfortunately, our dirt is so polluted, we can not offer the same. Jenell

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Jenell

Great info... Thanks.

Very interesting about the male Too feeding the female.

I know that Baby was not weaned properly - I a going to start a hand feeding - comfort food for a period of time to see what happens.

Again- Thanks

[Bambam]

Hello &:welcome:to Happybirdy:dancered:

[FoxersArtist]

Uncle,
This is such a good thread. Is there any way to archive threads in a special folder for later use?
-Anna

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Anna - I agree, this is a good thread. I have learned so much.

I will make it a sticky. And at some later time I will copy all the posts in this thread to combine them into an article that we can put of Happy Birdy.

[too&me]

I know that I have both listened to researchers & read articles that also speak to the trace elements in the clay or dirt that the Macaws ingest being important or required for their health,not just to detox.