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View Full Version : Just received a diagnosis of chronic zinc toxicosis


jmfleish
01-13-2008, 12:07 AM
Hi, I'm new to this forum and was invited over from The Perch by Jill W. Last week I finally got a diagnosis on my six year old male Ducorps' Cockatoo, Reggie, of chronic zinc toxicosis. My vet, one of two I generally see at the University of Wisconsin vet school, feels that we should take a wait and see attitude and not treat with chelation but I feel helpless by just doing nothing. I have gone through Reggie's cage and removed anything that was suspect but most of his toys are SS. He's not a big chewer and mostly chewed up Birdie Bagels, which I have since been told from several sources are safe, plastics, and just a little bit of safe wood from Mother Pluckin'. About a year or so ago, I left his feeder door open a couple of times and when he went on his "fun run" he chewed up a lot of the baseboard in my bird room which is varnished. Since that time, I will occasionally see him trying to sneak in there to do more damage but usually catch him right away. I'm obviously going to have his cage tested as I see Jill did but he doesn't chew on the powder coating at all. After three years, it's still in pristine condition. It's an HQ and I have heard that some people have had problems with this cage brand. Reggie does move around in his cage a lot and uses his beak a lot on the bars, but just to get around, no chewing.

Other than that, I have the Birdie Butlers for drinking for all five of my birds, two SIEs, a Patagonian Conure, and a TAG. The younger SIE isn't looking the greatest right now, but I thought it was diet related until I got the results back on Reggie. I will be taking Taco SIE in on Monday for a full physical and blood tests as well as the zinc test. My grey will also go in just for the zinc test but he looks incredibly healthy and happy. As for the water bottles, they all have valves that are all stainless steel with the exception of outer part which is a copper colored metal that isn't soft...maybe it's brass? I contacted the company right away and asked and he is absolutely certain that they are completely safe, but I ordered two new bottles for now that have a completely SS valve.

I'm at a loss as to where the zinc is coming from but have removed anything that I think might be causing it. My vet told me to have my water tested too and I suppose I'll have to do that as well. Until then I've decided to go with bottled water for Reggie but I can't get him to go back to drinking from a bowl. He refuses to drink without his bottle...

Other than that, the only physical symptom that Reggie seems to have is the feather picking and possibly neurological signs? He shakes his head a lot more than he ever used to, almost like he's a wind up toy that's stuck. He will also run from being in a still and comfortable position, almost like he's got bugs crawling on him. His weight has gone up, not down over the last couple of months and his appetite is still very good.

So, is there anyone else who's been through this that can give some good advice? My Ekkies' breeder had a situation with zinc toxicosis three years ago in one of her Black Palm pair and she's been very, very helpful. Her pair had an acute case though, they got it from a SS shelf rest that probably had non-SS welds, or so we think. I don't know if I should go with chelation or if I should just wait like my vet had initially suggested and I have no idea if I've removed the zinc from his environment because I honestly don't know what it could have been in...any help at this point would be fantastic!

Thanks,

Jen

Larry, Baby and Me
01-13-2008, 12:24 AM
Hey Jen --- please stay on board - don't go anywhere...

This isw Larry - My Umbie went through some similar stuff and I have info for you.... I have to read your thread .

Will get back in a short.

Dot
01-13-2008, 12:33 AM
Jen,

I am very sorry you and your birds are going through this. I do have a few comments.

"He's not a big chewer and mostly chewed up Birdie Bagels, which I have since been told from several sources are safe"

Jen, a friend of mine sent Birdie Bagels to her vet to have them checked. I have seen the test results. I have held them in my hand. Birdie Bagels do have zinc. You can double check by taking some to your vet and demanding that they be checked, but I promise you, I have seen the results. I threw away all that I had.

"Other than that, the only physical symptom that Reggie seems to have is the feather picking and possibly neurological signs?"

My BFA used to have seizures. She was on Phenobarbital for years but has now been weaned off of it. I have always wondered if she got into some heavy metal. I can't remember if that was the time I was still giving her Birdie Bagels, but she was the only bird I had who would play with them. Also, I had her in a King's Cage that the Scarlet Macaw came in. I have never had the paint on it tested. I have that cage outside and they are only in it for a few minutes during the warm weather.

"uses his beak a lot on the bars, but just to get around, no chewing."

I remember a vet once talking about cleaning cages. He said all you had to do was miss one spot and something could grow there. Think about how big that cage is. I know that I have never examined every inch of a cage. Maybe there is one spot that the paint came off easily. Maybe it is someplace weird like the underside of the grate. I would definitely have the paint tested.

Again, I am truly sorry. I have had sick birds and it just about kills me. We on HB will be here to lend a shoulder, but I encourage you to start having things tested. Start by throwing away those Birdie Bagels.

You also might want to consider seeing another vet. If you are not happy, don't worry about that vet's feelings. Go see someone who will help you take care of your birds.

Larry, Baby and Me
01-13-2008, 12:44 AM
Okay Jen...

Birds do have a natural level of zinc in their body - Parrots have a normal level of 1.8 and Toos are a little higher at 2.2. Reggie tested at 4.0.

The symptoms are what we have to talk about to determine how much is too much for him.

Has he been DNA'd - is he truely a male?

You said ... "About a year or so ago, I left his feeder door open a couple of times and when he went on his "fun run" he chewed up a lot of the baseboard in my bird room which is varnished."

When a bird gets into zinc or lead - they react within a matter of a couple days --- and most within a couple of hours... so a year ago is not the source.

You said - "copper colored" --- I agree it could be brass - brass is deadly... copper and zinc mixture.

YOu said "Birdie Butlers"

I don't know what those are... please tell me.

You said " absolutely certain that they are completely safe, but I ordered two new bottles for now that have a completely SS valve."

Please - let's have an understanding right now - we don't have time for niceties --- do not believe any supplier about the safety of their products. I will tell you more later. Right now - let's get reggie on the road to recovery.

You said "have my water tested too "

Yep - bottled water only.

You said -- He refuses to drink without his bottle...

You will have to teach him how to drink from a SS bowl.

You said --- Other than that, the only physical symptom that Reggie seems to have is the feather picking and possibly neurological signs? He shakes his head a lot more than he ever used to, almost like he's a wind up toy that's stuck. He will also run from being in a still and comfortable position, almost like he's got bugs crawling on him. His weight has gone up, not down over the last couple of months and his appetite is still very good.

It is well known in the avian medical community that heavy metal toxins is a couse of plucking. Note - I said is a cause... there are many causes -- metal toxins are the most common cause... after stress and boredom.

What does he wheight now.. and what did he weigh in the past --- what is his normal weight range???

Does he appear to be cold - shaking a little??

Does he play as he used to?

Does he perch with both feet on the perch.

Explain exactly what he has been doing and what was it that caused you to take him to the vet?

Please respond.

More to follow...

Larry, Baby and Me
01-13-2008, 12:48 AM
Jen - I see that you have logged off HB - I do hope you come back.

FoxersArtist
01-13-2008, 05:48 AM
Hi Jen!
I will keep your cockatoo in my prayers. I'm sorry to say, I have never dealt with a bird with heavy metal poisoning so I'm not sure what to tell you, though if it were my bird, "waiting it out" would be the wrong answer from my vet and I would demand a pro-active form of treatment RIGHT NOW. Unfortunately, birds can just go down hill so quickly, and it's better to be on top of something and overly cautious than too late. I think you are doing all of the right things by seaching his environment for possible causes. Here's hoping you can find the culprit so you can prevent any further exposure. Good luck.
-Anna

Anne-Samantha's Mom
01-13-2008, 08:37 AM
i DONT know a thing about toos dear...but I will keep your birdie in my prayers and hope you come back!!!! these people can help you for sure

too&me
01-13-2008, 11:59 AM
We are all pulling for you and him! Do get rid of the birdie bagels I have heard nothing good a bout them. I am familiar with the p-nut butter, mineral oil & metamucil formula for clearing the heavy metals and most birds even like it. I would suggest starting on that.