Dread...shear dread.

[Wanda and Flock]

A couple of months ago, my husband gave the worst ultimatum (you know-the birds or me- so to speack). I contacted one of our members and was able to find a new home for my youngest M2. When hubby saw how bad I took it, he agreed to finish turning the garage into an aviary and try again with the 4 I had left. He does have heart, just not alot of patience. Well, it didn't cure the problems. I have a much, much higher tolerance for my babies than he does. And just when I thought things could not get any worse...his anger got the best of him and he hit Dolly. It cracked her beak at an angle. Of course I took care of her and she is fine now. I told him that I would keep working with her but that she only screams when she knows I am home and I am not with her and only for a little bit until she realizes that I am not coming...at least not yet. I have taught her to call my name. She says "Wandaaaaaaaa" and I come immediately in hopes of teaching her to call me like that instead of the screaming. But his patience is running out. He told me my birds were driving him (#$#%#%ing) crazy. I am dreading even dealing with this again....I am heart-broken and half scared to death. I contacted a place in WAshington but I'm scared of it because I can't go see it. I can't stand the thought of them being bounced around from home to home either....
This is possibly the worst thing I think I have gone through in my marriage..... I couldn't believe he hit her. And I can't believe we are going through this. He went into this eyes wide open, just like I did.

I don't know what I need....comfort, advise, answers... I don't know. But I knew this was the only place I could come to get any of it....

Larry....OH MY GOD!!! WHAT do I do?????

[Birdlover]

I cant even imagine how you must be feeling. One step at a time, you will get through this and we'll be here for you. :hugz: Can you post the name of the place in WA? Maybe someone here knows about it. What state are you in? Maybe we could find a situation where you could place your birds and give you time to sort everything out. I feel so awful and wish I knew what to say. :(

[Wanda and Flock]

The place in WA is called The Cockatoo Rescue and Sanctuary. It's cockatoorescue.org

I have been in touch with a lady there. She is reassuring but I even asked for updated pictures. She said she could not do that because it's winter and everything is a "mess". All the aviaries are covered and have heat lamps and cords everywhere. I am not familiar with how parrots would be kept up north because I live in Texas where it's basically warm enough year around. It's sooooo sad. We built the aviary with plenty of boing ropes, ladders and perches all above the ground. They have toys in every direction and I think they love it. My Triton (you know him as the "bat bird" just plays and plays, hangs around upside down and makes me laugh constantly. I can't even imagine my life without them. I went through this a couple of months ago and felt such relief when he agreed to give another shot. But, I knew in my heart it wouldn't last. I guess I thought I"d ride it out or it would "go away" or something.... I sure wasn't expecting him to give up again this fast.

[bonnie]

I am SO sorry Wanda. I wish I could do SOMETHING to help you!!! It's just awful! I also have an impatient husband. It's very hard. The difference is that I only have 1 bird. Just hang in there! I know that he has a heart. It's just exactly as you have described, they just don't have the patience. We're all here for you!

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Wanda,

Right now I am in shock and don't have my mind wrapped around this situation fully.

I just wanted to do a quick post to let you know we are here and will do what we can...

I will do further posts... just --- please hang in there for the moment.

Larry

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Wanda,

Let's take a deep breath and see if we can sort this out.

What is "exactly" the situation with the birds right now?

Tell me the species of each bird you have.

If you would feel more comfortable talking about all this in Private - You can PM me. But I suggest we discuss this out in the open to get other's input. You are among friends and we are all family here... okay???

We can work this out together. There are enough of us here that have contacts and resources... you do not have to do this on your own.

This is the very thing HappyBirdy is all about.

[birdscomefirst]

I agree with Larry, lets go a step at as time.

I have a problem with the "Sanctuary". here is why.

You can't visit it to check it out.

Her excuse about not taking pictures is lame.

I live about 90 minutes from Stanwood WA , which is the location of the place. It shouldnt be a mess. It should not have been affected by the recent storms. Their shouldnt be cords all over the place etc.

The pictures of the aviaries show that they are made of cheap PVC tubing and galvanized wire. Both unsafe for parrots.

I am not saying that the place is a problem, I just wouldnt be comfortable with those answers from the place. I think it is a Laurie Keene that runs the thing.

Just my two cents.

If this is a behavioral issue, lets try to work on the birds behavior problems. I am willing to help in any way that i can.

Bill

[TikiTalks]

Wanda,
I am so sorry this is happening. I don't know what I'd do if put to this.. I cannot believe what has happened. There's a woman who comes on this board, her name is Anna. She is BASICALLY a rescue. Her name is FoxersArtist, you may email her and see what she has to say.

[FoxersArtist]

Hi Wanda.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. What a horrible thing to have happen to your precious baby and I'm sure you are feeling so very torn and heartbroken about the decisions you will have to make. I can't imagine being in your place. I can't imagine standing between the birds and my spouse. I wish I could hug you and be there to console you but I really can't understand just how horrible you must be feeling.

Even as I may not understand, I may be able to help you. I would be delighted to offer a safe place for your birds to stay while you work things out with your husband. We live in New Mexico and my good friend Michelle will be driving through TX in the next few days to go to FL and back if you are interested. We would be happy to foster a few or all 4 of your babies until you can find them homes or work things out with your husband so they can come home. I would also be happy to help look for good, loving, responsible homes if that is needed, but if it were my bird, I would want to place them myself, so I understand if that's what you would want. You are more than welcome to come see us at any time, and I would be happy to send you pictures, videos and updates at least once a week. The only thing I can't promise is that we will adopt any of your precious babies. It just wouldn't be fair to our own flock. Please let me know if we can help you. And if I can help in any other way, let me know. I will pray that you will be able to find a way to keep your birds, but in the meantime, I hope you can find someplace safe for them to be. Take care, feel free to e-mail me. Foxersartist@GMail.com
-Anna

[TikiTalks]

Hi Wanda. I'm Michelle, I emailed you and hopefully if needed I can come and give you a hug :) i also included my phone number. :)

Hi Wanda.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. What a horrible thing to have happen to your precious baby and I'm sure you are feeling so very torn and heartbroken about the decisions you will have to make. I can't imagine being in your place. I can't imagine standing between the birds and my spouse. I wish I could hug you and be there to console you but I really can't understand just how horrible you must be feeling.

Even as I may not understand, I may be able to help you. I would be delighted to offer a safe place for your birds to stay while you work things out with your husband. We live in New Mexico and my good friend Michelle will be driving through TX in the next few days to go to FL and back if you are interested. We would be happy to foster a few or all 4 of your babies until you can find them homes or work things out with your husband so they can come home. I would also be happy to help look for good, loving, responsible homes if that is needed, but if it were my bird, I would want to place them myself, so I understand if that's what you would want. You are more than welcome to come see us at any time, and I would be happy to send you pictures, videos and updates at least once a week. The only thing I can't promise is that we will adopt any of your precious babies. It just wouldn't be fair to our own flock. Please let me know if we can help you. And if I can help in any other way, let me know. I will pray that you will be able to find a way to keep your birds, but in the meantime, I hope you can find someplace safe for them to be. Take care, feel free to e-mail me. Foxersartist@GMail.com
-Anna

[lcarle]

Hi Wanda, I am soooo sorry this happened!!! So glad there are people here that can help more than I. I will be keeping you all in my prayers.

My husband is also not as patient with the birds. He has a job 5 hours away now and he comes home every other weekend. He is now having less patience with all the noise and Zoey (U2) when he visits. Zoey is starting to bite him and he is yelling at her and responding poorly. It is hard to talk with him lately. I know he needs to be calm with her and help her through this. They use to cuddle before bed every night, but then we rehomed Buchee (M2) and being male and she being female it changed the dynamics. (4 of my 5 birds are rehomed.) She was still cuddling with daddy, but not as often. Now I think she is upset that he has left. So I just need to sit down and talk with my husband when he is not stressed to discuss the matter.

Again I am soooo sorry. That would just be so scary and I would also be wondering what to do. Again I will be praying for you.

[too&me]

It is a very difficult time for you & Him & the Birds. I don't think you can make any one take anger management classes so maybe a time out could be good. We have 5 Moluccans at the Sanctuary here in Pearland most of them for the noise levels. I empathize cause my husband gets stressed sometimes from our U2's exuberant sounds. Perhaps you could add soundproofing to the walls between them & him? I think that right now the stress levels are very high for you all & it will be difficult to defuse but possable. Perhaps Anna or I could take some pressure off for a month or two & you could reintroduce one at a time slowly after the garage is finished. Do be very cautious as that behavior can include hitting people as well. We all are wishing & praying for you all. So sorry this happened & wishing you well. You can also email or call me privately if you just need to vent or cry I'm there for you Wanda! Jill

[Julie]

Wanda,

I know what it is like to have a hubby that does not have the patience. How long has he felt this way, and how quickly is he wanting resolution? Please keep us posted as we all want to send our strength out to our family members, especially when they REALLY need it....

Try to stay strong, if nothing more than for the birds.... Julie

[Sashagirl]

Wanda

I hope that you are safe as well as your birds.I really wish there was something I could do but my house is full already.I know what you are going through to have to make a choice like this.I would choose my passion.You need to do what feel is the right thing to do.If you yourself are in any kind of danger of being harmed there is help out there for you.Can you PM me and tell me where you are?Please be safe!

Marcia

[Wanda and Flock]

I have an M2, a triton, an umbrella and a grey. All are beautifully feathered and very pampered. The problem with Dave is the high pitches whether it's screaming, or just mimicking the darn microwave. His patience is getting thinner. Recently, he started leaving the house, slamming doors, screaming back at them and then hitting Dolly. He has a huge heart for Eve, the umbrella. She can do no wrong. But the rest- it's like he can't stand them now. He has hurt Benny in the past too. I am not sure what my choice is. I am actually contemplating keeping them over him...especially when I am mad- like today. I go through emotional stages, up and down, back and forth. To make matters worse, the neighbor across the street saw Dave outside today and asked him about Dolly. He stated she was really loud. It only made things worse. My response is that the neighbor's dog and kids are ten times louder- ALL the time! In fact, they were outside popping fire crackers in the street. I don't understand the tolerance for that but not for our own.

I appreciate the emails and I will respond to them. I posted out loud because Larry suggested it. The reason I was considering the sanctuary is to keep them from getting bounced around. I would even pay her long term to insure their care if I knew it was as legit as the website indicates. I did get out of her that she is the only one running it and she has volunteers "when the need arises"....Well, with 80 plus Moluccans, I would think the need arose a long time ago...I am definitely skeptical.

It's so sad. I just thought I had the perfect home until a couple of months ago. All of these horror stories about re-homing parrots seemed so far removed from my situation. I guess I'm still in a state of shock and I know I have to make some choices. LIke I said, we have a wonderful marriage otherwise.
*sigh*

[Sashagirl]

Wanda

This breaks my heart.Basically even with what we have my husband is leaving it up to me.I know how how much you love your birds because that is my passion.I will PM you.

Marcia

[Wanda and Flock]

Don't know if this will work, but I am posting my album of them. I keep going back to it over and over. They are soooo full of personality and I am soooo full in my heart of them. I can barely breathe or hold myself together when I see these pictures or go hold one of them. I have found myself waking them up and holding them for just a few more minutes. There are people popping fireworks outside and I keep going to check on them. The babies are not making a sound...it's eerie.
Anyway, here's the address for the album. Hope it works. I hope you all get as big of a smile as I do everytime I go to it.

http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z124/wandataugner/

[Wanda and Flock]

By the way, I know this sounds absolutely crazy...but, the lady in WA says that Moluccans scream because they are such flock birds..more so than any others. She found that when she put two or more in a cage, the screaming stopped immediately....just wondering.... don't want to make more mistakes, but I can't help but wonder if that's the answer for Dolly. Maybe I'm dreaming

[Larry, Baby and Me]

the lady in WA says that Moluccans scream because they are such flock birds..more so than any others.

She found that when she put two or more in a cage, the screaming stopped immediately....just wondering.... don't want to make more mistakes, but I can't help but wonder if that's the answer for Dolly. Maybe I'm dreaming

Parrots scream for many reasons... being flock animals is just one of them.

Putting two large species Toos in the same "cage" should NOT be considered. It "might" work out okay if they were in a large aviary - but not in a cage.

The larger Toos such as U2s and M2s are known for their mate agression. No other species can equal their violence toward one another. Their agression is beyond compare.

And they do not have to be of the opposite sex (male and female) for agression to take place.

And if you get another large Too - you could add another screamer to your flock.

I wouldn't go there...

[Wanda and Flock]

okay. It was a dumb idea. Well, maybe not dumb, just desperate. I am in a state of panic I think. Just tossing out some of the things I am being told.

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Wanda,

That was not a dumb idea at all. You are searching for solutions to your problem... no one can fault you for that.

This is the very reason we have HappyBirdy and all of our family members here. Not one of us has all the answers. Some have experiences where others might not.

There is power in a collective group. I just happen to have a close friend of mine who is a breeder that last spring had first-hand experience with M2 mate aggression. It was then that I took notice and did further research on the subject.

He had this breeding pair of M2s for over 25 years. He has over 200 breeding pairs of all different species... so he knows his stuff.

Last spring he allowed a visitor to come see his birds in their aviaries. She just poked her head in and looked around.

The next morning my friend found the M2 hen on the bottom of the aviary - her head ripped off. The male was sitting on the perch perfectly still. Apparently in shock for what he had done. The male then mourned so much over his lost mate that he refused to eat and in little over a week he died as well.

What my friend concluded that the visitor's mere presence upset the male so much that he perceived his territory to be threatened. He then tried to make his mate flee the danger but she could not because of being inside the aviary. In his desperation to get her to flee he turned to rage and ripped at her throat.

My friend said he had never previously allowed any visitors (strangers) to come near his breeding birds while in the breeding season and he made a mistake. He vowed to never do that again. He lost a valuable proven breeding pair and he was emotionally attached to the pair.

Lesson learned.

[Evelyn]

[quote=Wanda and Flock;1651]A couple of months ago, my husband gave the worst ultimatum (you know-the birds or me- so to speack).This is possibly the worst thing I think I have gone through in my marriage..... I couldn't believe he hit her. And I can't believe we are going through this. He went into this eyes wide open, just like I did.

I don't know what I need....comfort, advise, answers... I don't know. But I knew this was the only place I could come to get any of it....



Wanda -

I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. Having read all of the posts, my suggestions is that you not make any decision right now. You are not in any shape to. Let Anna or somebody you know take the birds temporarily. I don't like the sound of the sanctuary in Washington. Put them somewhere you know they will be safe so you can think without being distracted by worrying about them.

In my opinion, what to do with the birds is not the primary problem. What to do about your husband is. You could place the birds elsewhere to placate him, but you will resent him for it from now on. You could perhaps place all but the one he likes, and keep that one. That would be a compromise that is more than generous to him.

My bigger concern would be about the character of a person who would hit and injure a helpless animal. So what if he doesn't have much patience? He is an adult who should be able to control himself.

My advice is: (1) Find a safe, temporary place for the birds; (2) Talk to your husband about how you feel about this; encourage him to go with you to counseling; (3) If he won't go to counseling, or if he does and his behavior towards the birds doesn't change, then I believe you have to think serioiusly about whether or not you want to live the rest of your life like this. One thing you cannot do is expose your birds to treatment of this kind. Striking a bird is unforgiveable unless you must do it to protect your own safety.

I know it is easy for someone else who isn't going through what you are to give advice; but I can tell you unequivocably that if my husband said it's the birds or me, I'd tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass.


Actually, I wouldn't say it like that. I would tell him how much the birds meant to me, and that I was responsible for them for their lifetimes, and that I loved him, that I knew they got on his nerves and I was sorry about that and would like to talk about how to deal with that other than getting rid of the birds, but that if he decided he couldn't live with the birds, I was sorry about it but I understood. Then the ball is in court. He can decide to stay married and live with you and the birds without abusing them, or he could decide he didn't want to do that and he or you would move out.

Frankly, I can't see that ending the marriage is going to make you feel any worse than you do right now.

I'm very lucky to have a tolerant husband. He isn't an animal lover like I am, but he knew the way I was when he married me (38 years ago). We have three parrots, three big dogs, four permanent cats and 2 who are fostering here, and 4 horses. He takes care of the horses, and I take care of the others.

One of the birds is a cockatoo who can get as noisy as only a cockatoo can. I have an extra cage in the basement (where my office is); and if Plato gets particularly loud, I just take him down there. He doesn't see it as punishment, and my husband appreciates the quiet time.

If you want to email me privately, please feel free to do so. I feel as though I have a rock in the pit of my stomach when I think about what you are going through and how you must feel.

Evelyn

[bonnie]

I feel as though I have a rock in the pit of my stomach when I think about what you are going through and how you must feel.

Evelyn
I think this sums up what everyone is feeling right now. We are here to help you and give you whatever resources you need.

[FoxersArtist]

Wanda,
Your babies are beautiful, happy, and well loved. They have these things written all over them. They deserve the very best and I know that each of them would boast about their mommy's love and dedication if they could! I have faith that this situation will work out ok for the best in the end. It may take some time and it may not be easy in the meantime, but it will work out. Let us know what you decide and if we can help in any other way.
-Anna

[lcarle]

Hi Wonda

I agree with Evelyn that there is a rock in the pit of my stomach as well. Sorry I am unable to give you any advice, but there are others here that can help you more than I can. I just wanted to let you know I have been praying hard for you and your situation.

I would also like to thank you for sharing your situation with us. I told my husband last night about it and it helped me talk with him about our situation with Zoey. Thank you again.

[too&me]

Laura that was lovely-It is not easy to broach subjects that we might get a negative response to you have great courage & so Does Wanda for sharing her most difficult situation with us all. Evelyn gave valuable and thoughtful advice. Hoping for a positive resolution & so proud of you all. Please stay in touch with us Wanda , we do care.

[Evelyn]

Wanda -

How are you doing? Have you and hubby been able to work anything out?

My concern last night (actually very early this AM) was to take the birds out of the equation temporarily so you would have time to think without worrying about them. I still believe that is the best thing to do now. A sanctuary, even if it is a good one, probably isn't going to give them back. Placing them somewhere temporarily (all together if possible) probably isn't going to hurt them a bit. My experience has been that birds, altho not as adaptable as dogs, cats or horses--can adapt to change as long as they are not frightened unnecessarily. Keeping them together would give them comfort for each other until you make a final decision.

Now, on to possible solutions.

I think that before the problem can be resolved, you have to figure out what is causing your hubby to behave the way he is behaving. I can understand that the noise would get on his nerves. It does mine, too, sometimes. But I don't believe that is the real cause of his yelling at and injuring the birds. (BTW, I don't think he intended to injure Dolly. I think he just became very angry and he does't know how to direct the anger in a positive way. Of course, that matters little to Dolly--she only knows she was hurt.)

I'm wondering if the root of his anger is that he feels that you care more about the birds than you do about him; that you are putting them ahead of his feelings. He could really be angry at you and taking it out on the birds. He may not even be aware that he is doing that.

Altho you might be tempted to tell him you choose the birds over him, that wouldn't be smart--at least not yet. Since you have apparently had a good marriage up to now, and he is otherwise good-hearted, this is a problem that can probably be worked out.

You mentioned that he was turning the garage into an aviary. Is that completed yet? If not, wouldn't that go a long way toward solving the problem? It's not as good as having them close to you, but it's not as bad as having hubby get mad and hurt the birds, either.

I suppose you work. and I assume your hours are roughly the same as hubby's. If that is so, then perhaps you could bring them in at different times. Don't bring in the noisy ones when he is there--just the quiet ones. You can go out and see all of them when you first get home. You can spend one-on-one time with them when you are showering or bathing or when hubby is not there. You can spend time in the aviary with them when you are also doing something else, such as reading, paying bills, planning meals, making grocery lists--all of those things that we can do almost anywhere. Encourage hubby to have a "night out with the boys." That should please him and you would have an evening alone with the birds.

If you don't already have one, you might think about getting one of the videos or DVDs that are made especially for babysitting birds. I can't think of the names of them right now, but somebody on the board will know. I have had people tell me that playing the tape/DVD fascinates their birds and the birds are less noisy and less destructive.

You could negotiate with your husband. There must be something he likes or wants that you don't. Can you make a deal with him that if he will stop abusing (yelling at, hitting their cages, hitting them, throwing things at them, etc.) the birds, you will do or agree to whatever it is he wants?

If the aviary is finished, and he still complains about the noise, then what about doing some soundproofing between the garage and the rest of the house?

As I mentioned before, you could give the birds up. I could not be happy without mine, and I would seriously question how much my husband loved me if he insisted on it. But I am not you.

I also mentioned that you could perhaps compromise--you keep two and place two, or any combination. I wouldn't be happy with that either, but again, I am not you.

I don't know how long you've been married or what your financial situation is; but regardless, it is a scary thing to think about a divorce, about being on your own after being married, about not having any financial support other than your own. But we aren't talking about just this problem with the birds.

Boiled down to its simplest elements, it's a matter of mutual respect. How much do you respect/care about the wishes of the other? How far are you willing to go to make the other happy? Are you willing to compromise so that each of you gets something of what he/she wants?

If he sticks to "it's the birds or me" position, then I think you have your answer--not only for the birds but for your marriage.

I think you have already compromised by giving up one of the birds and by agreeing to a bird room apart from the house. What is he willing to do?

The two of you need to talk seriously about this. Approach it with an attitude of "let's see what we can come up with that will satisfy both of us." Acknowledge that you understand his frustration and irritation about the noise and that you want to work something out that will help alleviate that and at the same time allow you to keep the birds.

I think what hubby really wants is to know that you understand and care about his feelings in the matter.

Let us know how you are doing. We all care about you.

Evelyn

[Diane, Clouds assignment]

Here's the link to The Bird Sitter DVD I got for Cloud. He watches it and it has always had a calming affect on him.

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Bird-Sitter/dp/B00075E24S/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1199229445&sr=8-1

[Wanda and Flock]

I am taken back by the people and responses on this board. Just the shear amount of caring.

Anyway, I have consulted with Larry and rather than post everyone privately, I am writing it here. I am going to have someone foster them for me for a short period and give my husband (and myself) a chance to take some time and figure this out. This way, I can keep them all together, I know they are safe and I can show Dave that I am listening while we work out a compromise. I am soooooo lucky to have you all, Eve, Benny, Lucy and Dolly too, we are all lucky. And one day, maybe I can return this favor and help others.

I can't make up my mind to re-home any of them right now. If there is even a chance that I can get them all back and keep them all in a better situation, it's best to take that chance. Although I do appreciate all of the wonderful people that offered to take one or all of them. I guess they are going on a little trip to see an Aunt until they can come home to momma. This is the only option that gave me any peace whatsoever. A chance for them to be together safely, kept together and a chance to make things right for them to come home... they are going on a vacation...that's all.

Yes, we are under some strain but that will be over within the next six months. We are on the downside of the hill on this situation and maybe that's what Dave needs. I plan to talk with him tonight with a different approach (thanks again, Larry). I will keep everyone posted.

[Evelyn]

Wanda -

I think you are doing exactly the right thing. Good luck.

You have already helped somebody. I saw a message from somebody who said your post caused her to bring up the subject with her SO.

We are family.

Evelyn

[Birdlover]

Wanda, you, your hubby and your birds will certainly be in my prayers. I am proud of you for sharing something so personal and so difficult with us. I personally feel you are making the best possible choice right now. Your birds will be in good hands. :hugs:

[bonnie]

I'm so happy you made a decision you are comfortable with. I am hoping everything works out for the best. We are all here for you still!

[birdscomefirst]

I agree 100% with what Larry says here. There are normal times of each day for all birds to scream. When they scream for no "apparent" reason, the reason might just not be apparent to us. I definitely would not add another bird to the mix at this point.

Parrots scream for many reasons... being flock animals is just one of them.

Putting two large species Toos in the same "cage" should NOT be considered. It "might" work out okay if they were in a large aviary - but not in a cage.

The larger Toos such as U2s and M2s are known for their mate agression. No other species can equal their violence toward one another. Their agression is beyond compare.

And they do not have to be of the opposite sex (male and female) for agression to take place.

And if you get another large Too - you could add another screamer to your flock.

I wouldn't go there...

[birdscomefirst]

As I continued on through this thread, I was saddened but happy at the same time.

I am happy that the birds will be safe but saddened that you will be separating from them.

This group of people came together in the first place because of our passion for birds, and wanting to help the people who are owned by them.

Some of us have been through this, Yep, even on the male side. My Ex-wife went to live with her boyfriend. (This all took place years ago) That took care of my problem. We understand the torment and just want to help.

[FoxersArtist]

A few summers ago, I was suddenly diagnosed with a massive blood clot that completely blocked the major artery of my entire left leg. The onset of symptoms happened so quickly that I didn't even have time to say goodbye to the birds before being rushed to the hospital. Little did I know, I would be spending 2 months away from my precious flock, trapped in a hospital with all sorts of pregnancy related complications. I was going through a really rough time and I was scared. All I wanted was to snuggle my babies but I couldn't. I was desperate to make sure they got the care they needed while I was away and so I set out to find them loving homes who would agree to foster them until I was better. Each bird was matched with a home that fit their needs and I will forever be grateful to those who helped me during my time of need. I guess that experience really helps me to be able to empathize with anyone who has to say goodbye due to life circomstances.

Wanda, we ARE a family and we all care about you. My greatest hope is that the only way you will have to be seperated from your babies is by the miles. Hopefully stories and pictures and videos can keep you connected to your little feathered children. When I was in the hospital, I called to talk to Peggy Sue almost every day. Her sweet voice over the phone made my day and made the wait much easier to indure. Maybe something like this can be arranged with your flock so that you won't have to be cut off from them.

Please keep us posted.
-Anna

[lcarle]

Wonda - so am also glad you feel good about your decision and you found a foster home. Great job. I will keep you in my prayers.

[lcarle]

Wonda, I do not want to take away from your situation here, but my husband also lost his temper tonight. I know he is not the hitting type (thank goodness), but he sure rocked the house, well I guess I did as well. He asked again why we have to have so many birds and that he hated them. Darn it. I just can't wait until he goes back to Moses Lake and leaves us alone. I know he is stresses lately, but he is taking it out on us. I told him to call his friend and say "no" to rehoming their sun conure. I would won't mind, but I think he doesn't need more noise and more work for when he comes home.

Hope I didn't overshadow your situation. Keep us posted.

[too&me]

Good for you & your guardian angels. What you are choosing to do sounds reasonable & well thought out. Your babies will be loved & cared for while you try to make sense of things. ((hugs))

[Anne-Samantha's Mom]

Wanda if your husband can hit a birdie, he could hit you..and I suspect this already the case..I may be jumped on for saying all this....get rid of your husband keep the birds..NO ONE and I do mean no one could ever give me such an ultimatum again..never ever. I was married for about a minute and half to my first terribly abusive husband and he almost took my life...Wanda get out of there, with your birdies.

[Anne-Samantha's Mom]

Wanda...I know you are hurting...I know what I may have posted may have seemed harsh to you..I just want you to know I am on your side dear...and hugs..whatever you decide to do...we are with you 100per cent

[too&me]

No one should jump on you for speaking the truth as you have lived it. None of us can speak for her but we can all support her & any one of us that needs prayer or a kind word can receive such here. We are all hoping she is safe & able to make the choices that are right for her. You speak for many people who have lived with abuse & escaped that situation you should be proud of having the strength to do so and to build a new life. So glad you are among us. I'm certain that Wanda will stay in touch and let us know what she chooses to do and whatever the outcome we will be there for her still. > :}

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Me & Too... you said it so well. This is what HappyBirdy is all about. Family and our birds.

[FoxersArtist]

Wanda,
please rest assure that we are standing behind you on whatever you decide so please don't feel pressured to make a decision on our behalf. We know you'll do what you need to. You are in my prayers.
-Anna

[birdie]

My heart hurts reading all of this. Wanda, I'm sorry you are going through such a rough time. Only you can chose what to do and when it's right for you to do it. You have many friends here to suport you when you need to talk, or to give you ideas to think about. Sometimes that is more help than you can realize. Larry was a great help to me at Thanksgiving time, I'm not sure how I would have made it without the phone calls, but that's another story.
We are here for you. {{hugs}}

[Anne-Samantha's Mom]

Wanda I stand behind you completely....I feel badly for telling you to leave...I know it isnt always that easy....Wanda please feel sure that we are all here for you no matter what you decide to do...hugs

[Wanda and Flock]

I can understand where some of you think that if a man can hit a parrot, he will hit anything...but I assure you, Dave has never hit me. Ever. And I know that he never will. Just like I know he will never cheat. Just like I know he generally has a good heart. He just does not care for parrots as much as I do... We have had several discussions ranging from anger to compromises, sorrow, regret etc...
He has apologized for hitting them and has told me that I can only have two. That's all he will compromise. Any two I pick. At first I was relieved that I could have two, but then when you realize you have to choose then it's heartache all over again. As of now, my first plan is not working out so I will continue to look for the best overall solution and yes, I will keep you posted. Thank you all again for your support and kind words. It must might be that I accept this compromise on the terms that it can not be re-negotiated later unless I get them all back. It's better than not having any of them.
I think Evelyn is right that he let me/agreed with me/went with me/purchased/adopted with me- all of our birds. And when we added the M2's, it was his breaking point. I don't think he really understood what he was asking for. He heard, but he didn't listen. Then, He let his temper get the best of him and made a huge mistake. Unfortunately......

[bonnie]

I'm very sorry that you have to choose. I know that must be VERY difficult for you. Just know that even though you have to pick which birds stay, you also get to pick where the others go. You can choose the people that will take care of them the best for you. And hopefully you can get updates, pics and videos from these people. Be brave! We're still all here for you!

[too&me]

Wanda I think of you often, what a quandary. I do understand both sides of the story & wishing you all the strength you need & the time to come to a decision you can be content with. {{hugs}} :hugs:

[Sashagirl]

Wanda

I have thought about you often and hope that you are really safe.Now you are forced to make a choice of only two.How terrible this must be for you to have to give up your feathered children like this.My heart aches for you and all the ones who will have to live without you.Oh how you all will grieve.I know I had to make this choice before but it had to do with having a place to live with my feathered and furry children.No man was involved.Fortunately I was able to find homes for them.But if given that choice again they all would have to stay because they are all a part of me and my wellbeing.I wish you well in the decisions that you will be up against in the future.:pray:

[Don]

Wanda, I have been sorta following this tragedy and thinking howit would apply to my experience - it cannot. The birds here are my thing, my wife of 37 years is a good partner and helper, she can feed day 1 babies if need be - she has accepted being part of this bird experience.....but I guess my point is that in a marriage relationship/partnership, neither one has the right, nor does either one have the responsibility, to issue quotas or demands such as this. It takes two oar to row the boat, and if one renigs, they don't go in thwe desired direction.

Birds do not understand human emotion or frustration, they have their own ways we are trying to understand and live with - he may never strike them again, but he may do harm if there is a next time - YOU are the one who should set what is acceptable. No one who is in distress should n]\be the one giving directions. we wish you the best.
Don

[Wanda and Flock]

I got about a 2 hour notice that the lady that was picking them up originally was going to make it afterall. I quickly went straight to my husband and told him she was on her way. I sent all four -for their sake. Not his. I had to watch as they were loaded in the car and now they are gone. I am at least breathing now, I sure couldn't earlier. I feel soooo empty and purposeless. All I can do now is hope that I can find a solution that works for all of us and work toward that goal. All I can do is tell myself it's temporary and that I WILL see them again and I will BE with them again. I can't describe the agony and already regret it. I just hope time will allow me to figure something out or that I might start healing.

I was watching the wind whip through the trees. It was weird. I know that somewhere under the big blue sky, my babies are still with me. I already miss them terribly and I can't even think of them without bawling. I am crushed. My husband sees it and he is avoiding me -avoiding himself.

I don't want to do anything. I don't want to eat, go anywhere, talk to anyone (except here). It's horrible and my advice, at least at this point, would be DON"T DO IT! I think this is possibly the absolute worst thing I have ever done/been through. Nothing can replace them and I can only hope that we will be together again. I take peace knowing that where they are going, they will be well cared for. I will spend every bit of HIS paycheck to ensure that!

[Wanda and Flock]

I wanted to thank everyone for listening and supporting me. There are many different opinions and all of them made sense. No one knows what they would do until they are forced to face it. The reason I didn't keep two is that I talked with a couple people here that felt it might be better in the long run to send all four and keep them together in hopes that I get all four back. Dave has shown no remorse, at least not for them. He does not miss them like I do. NOt even Lucy- his bird.

His lack of pain in their absence makes me stronger toward him. I guess I will see what time does. He does keep checking on me and trying to get me out of the house. But I won't go anywhere right now. He tried to start putting away their stuff and I would not let him. It's like not changing your child's room when they leave for awhile.... I will be going to see them soon, I have already decided that NM is my vacation destination. I realized today that I neeeeeeeeeeeeed them, as much as they neeeeeeeed me. They love me unconditionally and are not afraid to commit to me and they can see us together forever and they counted on me for that too....

I am rambling, I just needed to cry and spill my guts and this is the only place to go. Larry, I tried to find your number but I deleted the email by accident. I have called them to see how the trip is going. I thought of jumping in my car and chasing them down. I just have keep telling myself that they will be happy campers, well cared for and it's temporary...

I know now what my purpose on this planet is...

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Wanda,

Check your private message or your regular email.

I sent you my cell number.

Larry

[Evelyn]

Don -

None of us has crystal balls, of course, but I can't see Dave hitting the birds again. Wanda and he have talked about this quite a bit, and he has expressed his regret. This is clearly a situation in which he was feeling very frustrated because he thought Wanda wasn't listening to him or considering his feelings. She has made it clear now that she is listening and she does care about his feelings. He is willing to compromise by agreeing to keep two birds, which I think is a big concession for somebody who would just as soon not have any animals. I really don't think he understands how important the birds are to Wanda. People who believe, "It's only a dog," or "It's only a bird," will never completely understand people who consider their pets the same as their kids.

When two parties to a marriage don't agree on something that affects them both, then compromise is a necessity if the marriage is to continue as a loving partnership. It might not be fair. There are many things in life that are not fair. It's a matter of what you can agree to that you can live with.

It may be that Wanda will agree to compromise on keeping two and then later decide she can't live happily without the other two. But she won't know until she tries. Her marriage is obviously very important to her, and I believe they both love eatch other, so she owes it to herself and to Dave to see if this solution will work if that is the best she can get him to agree to.

I know this is very hard for Wanda, and that she appreciates all the support and advice, and that you do wish the best for her. But she has to reach her own decision about what is the most important to her and what she is willing to do to preserve that. Jjust because she might choose to do something different from what you or I would choose doesn't make her wrong.

(Incidently, if anybody is interested, I would do just as I believe Wanda is going to do if my situation were the same as hers: I would agree to compromise on keeping two birds and put the other two someplace where they will be safe, but where I could get them back if I decided I couldn't live with having only the two. Dave would have to, of course, promise not to abuse them in any way--by hitting them or their cages or by yelling at them, and promise not to fuss about the two they kept. Something could happen in the future that could change his mind.

Evelyn

[Anne-Samantha's Mom]

oh Wanda...I am hurting for you so much inside...you say this man of yours is a good man...you are doing everything I did..what he did to you..making you choose..making you give up your birdies..you dont see this..it is a form of control..I have been there..I have been in your shoes...I HAVE BEEN THERE...he may not be hitting you..but he is controlling you...please, please...your love for this man needs to be re-examined...I am not telling you this to upset you in any way..I stand behind you...Wanda...

[Don]

well Evelyn, nobody would have forseen him doing it the first time either.

There are certainly more mature ways of acting out than striking an animal, or a wife. If it's that severe, leave the room, take a walk - somehow act like a thinking adult. How did he express himself earlier in his life - do you really think this was a one time explosion, or a behavioral trait - I've been dealing with people for a lifetime and we are creatures of habit. I am glad Wanda was not struck. Nobody should think the demand of giving up the animals they love is a compromise, it's a dictatorship. And once it's shown what he can do to have control, it won't get any better, there will always be the things that should be there, but aren't. He owes her more than he's cost her - big time !!

We've got 37 yrs into this one marriage, and we've had to learn some tools to make it work, they are worthwhile and they do work. I do wish everyone was as fortunate as we are.
Don

[Evelyn]

Don -

I congratulate you on the length of your marriage. Many people should be so lucky.

I've been married 38 years, and have been a divorce lawyer and counselor for about 26 years.

As I said, I don't have a crystal ball, and I'm not foolproof about reading other people--especially ones I haven't even met. But Wanda knows her husband better than anybody else. From what she has told us, he doesn't sound like a mean guy--just somebody who was frustrated and lost it and did something he regretted later. I think that probably applies to everybody over the age of 3.

At any rate, the message Wanda posted while I was writing mine says she has removed all 4 of the birds from the household, so the threat of the birds being struck again is not an issue--at least not for now.

From a philosophic viewpoint though, suppose Wanda told Dave, "If the birds can't stay, you can't stay." Isn't that the same sort of dictatorship as Dave tellling Wanda she can have only two birds?

What would you do if faced with a situation in which you and your wife had diametrically opposing viewpoints on something that was equally important to both of you. Suppose your wife said, "I have put up with breeding birds for x number of years. Some of it I have enjoyed. However, I'm tired of it now, and I want to do something different. Breeding and feeding babies is taking up so much of your time that we don't have time to [insert something she would like to do with you]. I want you to stop breeding."

And it's no fair saying she wouldn't ask that of you. This is a hypothetical.

AND I WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP IMPLYING THAT DAVE HAS HIT OR WILL HIT WANDA. She says he hasn't and that he wouldn't. She has been forthright about everything else. Why would she lie about that.

People aren't perfect. Sometimes they do things that are out of character. Have you never done something you regretted and would not do again?

I wish Wanda's husband (and mine) felt the same way about birds as we do. But they don't. And to try to force them to accept more birds than they are comfortable with is trying to control them. Wanda's situation is a little different because her husband caused her to think he was in agreement with all the birds they acquired. That isn't really fair. But, as we all know, life isn't fair.

Evelyn

[Wanda and Flock]

I thought I would let everyone know that my final decision was to send all four babies to Anna for now. I have decided basically not to decide as far as re-homing. Right now I think it's best to foster them and see what I can work out. All four are on their way to Anna's. Thank you again, Anna. For giving me some time to sort through this without having to make any final decisions.... I thank God for this place. I need time, and she gave me time.

[Don]

""life isn't fair""

on that we agree

[Evelyn]

I thought I would let everyone know that my final decision was to send all four babies to Anna for now. I have decided basically not to decide as far as re-homing. Right now I think it's best to foster them and see what I can work out. All four are on their way to Anna's. Thank you again, Anna. For giving me some time to sort through this without having to make any final decisions.... I thank God for this place. I need time, and she gave me time.

Wanda -

That's wonderful--at least for now.

Thank God for Anna.

Evelyn

[lcarle]

Wanda, I am constantly praying for you!! Hang in there the Lord will help you through this and will guide you in final decisions.

Anna, bless you!!! You are truly amazing!!

Laura

[too&me]

Wanda whatever the outcome it has to be what will work for you. Everyone has this forum to express their own opinion based on what they have been through or observed in their lives but not to make your decision in your life. Only you can go there. I'm so sorry you are having to suffer through this & can imagine your pain. Just stay strong & make good use of the time Anna provides for you. I wish you healing-May you walk in beauty, may you breathe in beauty, may your soul find soothing. Do listen to your inner voice and know we are with you, you have my support whatever comes. >:}Jill

[TikiTalks]

Wanda,
Everyone arrived safe and sound. I spend a few minutes at Anna's house while she was cuddling Eve, I was cuddling Dolly, and Andy was getting to know lucy while benny sat patiently waiting to be cuddled as well.

Dolly was absolutely amazing on the trip, in fact they all were, between the talking, whistling and giving kisses I thank you for allowing me to enjoy their company on the 15 or so hour drive to new mexico from your home.

If you need anything you have my number, as well as Anna's :)

[too&me]

:hugz: :angwing: :dreams::photo: