Moonlight bit the baby (long)

[Denise and Moonlight]

Well she's not a baby, just my baby. Brook just turned 4. I knew that bites could and would happen, and I know that a lot of people say that tooz and kids are a no, no,...but I don't agree. As far as bites go it could have been a lot worse, her finger is bruised and cut pretty good on one side and almost skinned about a quarter of an inch on the other....
Here goes, moonlights cage is in the living room as that is where most of our family time is spent (and she is part of the family), so while she is in her cage of course there are going to be times when the kids are in there and I am not. Now the rule is, no fingers in the cage and no feeding or treats unless I say it is ok, and usually this works fine. (for those of you who worry she is also only out while the kids are home when I have her and she is very closely watched) So far I have sustained 4 or 5 bites (well good ones that is) and my son got bit once last year when trying to swing her swing. I knew this was going to happen one day as my 4 year old is always trying to sneek her treats, but today I'm not sure what happend. I think it was bc she was on the bottom of her cage, moonlight tends to get aggressive when on the bottom of her cage, I think it has something to do with feeling vulnerable, and thats where brook tried to slip her a treat from when she got bit. I was down the hall doing laundry. Heres the thing, my hubby flipped out. Don't get me wrong, I was upset that brook was hurt, but moonlight is a bird and brook broke the rules. Robert on the other hand got really angry yelled and cursed about the "stupid bird" and when I calmed him down and we walked out to talk he said that he thinks moonlight should have some kind of consequence for what she did....:confused:. If she were out of the cage and did this then that would be simple, go back in the cage for time out, but I just don't know. He seems to understand now, and has calmed down, but everytime he walks past moonlight since then he ignores her or glares at her, and when one of the kids get close to her cage he jumps up real quick and says "keep your hands away from her". I don't know what to do. I don't want her to start behaving even worse bc of his negativity and I want him to stop being mad at her...plus I don't want the kids to be scared of her...just respect that she is a strong, "wild" animal....any body know what I can do?

[Chrissy and Flock]

Thats a tough one Denise, I assume like most little girls she is daddies girl and thats why he is angry. Hopefully after he sleeps on it may be he will be better able to accept what happened. I don't have any words of wisdom for you, just wanted you to know that I sympathise with your present situation... I pray he comes around and realise that Moonlight was only doing what birds do when they feel threatened...

[bonnie]

Barriers around the cage, That would be my first investment. Bendable baby gates that go around the cage and the perch area. There should also be not time the bird and kids are in the room alone. Take the kid or the bird with you. I really hope this doesn't evolve into future abuse or neglect against Moonlight. I feel for your situation, it must be so hard to deal with.

[Don]

You don't punish a bird for an irresponsible human error. Very young children and unpredictable birds have no valid reason to be put together for just the reason you have posted about - what if it had been her favce, or the bite was bad enough to require stitches ? Blame the bird - no, blame wifey - Absodarndlutely !. Please don't put your babies in that situation again.

Don

[Denise and Moonlight]

I know that everyone is defending moonlight (as I expected, and hoped for) but here is my question...How can I keep her and the kids from interacting? Short of getting rid of the kids or her, or having one of them in solitary it just isn't going to happen. This wasn't me leaving her on a perch, or out roaming free, she is securly locked in a cage as she always is when I do not have her while the kids are home, my daughter just stuck her finger through the bar on the cage to give her a treat! So I will definately try the baby gate suggestion, but I wont put moonlight in a solitary room away from the family and unfortunately while I would love to keep them seperate while I am not in the room or take moonlight with me everywhere it is just not possible, how can I tell the kids...ok mommy has to use the rest room, everyone needs to stay in their rooms until I get out, or mommy needs to cook dinner so everyone has to stay out of the living room...that wouldn't work, they are kids so they will come out. I can't take moonligt with me to these places ex cooking dinner, she cant be in the kitchen while I am cooking) ...so what am I expected to do? Now I am not asking to a solution to the biting, I know birds bite, and I know that kids don't always listen so I was prepared for this, not moonlight, what I wasn't prepared for was my husbands reaction. I know this was my fault, but lets be real, I know there are other people who have birds in their family and you can't say that there is never a moment when the bird(s) and the children are not alone while they are caged. So a solution like the baby gate or something else that is possible for me to do would be wonderful. Thank you all for the suggestions and the input...including the criticism, all is greatly appreciated!

[bonnie]

I really am glad you aren't jumping to get rid of Moonlight. That tells me you have everyones best interest at heart. I know you will handle this situation well. You are asking all the tough questions and preparing to take action as soon as you find the right solution.

[Chrissy and Flock]

Denise how is hubby today, sometimes daddies calm down and realise some things happen and will forgive the one that did the deed... I hope he is one of these guys I know you love everyone involved and you do not want to make choices... putting up an indoor pet fence around the cage really sounds like a good solution. I have seen them used at petsmart when they have the humane society there with dogs for adoption ... I would think you four year old will understand not to go inside it

[too&me]

Accidents happen, it could have been so much worse. She could have run in front of a car, wandered out of the house and into a pool or pond or gotten a hidden gun & hurt or killed herself or others. Try the baby gates maybe move her cage where you can see it from the kitchen or another room. Moonlight is a Too and bites will happen, Brook still has her finger and that is a relief, this was just a warning bite not a power bite. We can only do our best to protect those in our care maybe she will have learned that Moonlight can hurt as well as entertain and have a little more respect for a while. Daddy did over react but I can understand his view point as well as yours. Hope you are able to get over of that trapped in the middle feeling you must have right now. You are smart and responsible and I know you will find a way to make it work.

[iti hoa's mom]

First, have a family meeting. EVERYONE is feeling what is going on and it needs to be talked about. Each person will take their own take on it. Define the rules again. The children need to participate.

Invest in another cage. Have a room secure from the children and when you have family time or you can pay attention have moonlight out. Make sure moonlight can have fun where ever he is at.

A barrier. child gates work. I have used dog X pens to stretch out across an area.

Teaching. A 4 year old can learn and teaching needs to occur. Plan a certain time of the day that treats can be given and only then. This may discourage attempts to feed at other times when you are not immediately present.


Safety can be accomplished but you need to be a little creative.

[iti hoa's mom]

Forgot to mention. Choose the type of treat a child can give. Fingers are too vulnerable. One treat I used (and not too many please) is a graham cracker. They are long and thin and easier to keep fingers away.

Make a treat cup where a treat can be pushed through the bar and dropped into a cup and no fingers. You can just make a narrow opening to push the treat through. You can use plexiglass or wood or something to make the opening narrow so fingers cannot reach through or beaks reach out.

[too&me]

Or even more fun if Moonlight is willing, use a pick up device to offer the treat. No fingers and it can be put out of reach until treat time. Only if Moonlight is not afraid. Harry loves banana and it can be given off a chopstick so can a piece of toast w/a little nut butter.

[iti hoa's mom]

Or even more fun if Moonlight is willing, use a pick up device to offer the treat. No fingers and it can be put out of reach until treat time. Only if Moonlight is not afraid. Harry loves banana and it can be given off a chopstick so can a piece of toast w/a little nut butter.


You are so smart...such a good idea and I like the chopstick idea.

[Denise and Moonlight]

Thank you all sooo much for the advice and support...I don't know what I would do with out you. We did have a family meeting...well me and the kids, Robert was at work, the older two well they know brook, and she gets into everything, so I don't think they took it to seriously, but they did listen... I am looking for a gate that will serve the purpose of keeping kids and cage seperate. I do have another cage, but it's smaller (break down, travel size) and moonligt is fine in this one ...if we are away from home, but while we are home she gets very worked up when I try to put her in it, even if we are in a room away from her big cage, and then screams if I lock her in. The treat suggestions are wonderful, ...thank you i will be trying those ones out. As for brook, well normally moonlight loves her to death, I think it's bc she gives her more treats then the other kids, and jumps up and down and screams with her during loud time... but since yesterday she gets aggressive acting when brook is near her cage, I even took brook to give her a treat today (to keep her from being to scared) and moonlight was a little, I don't know, just not herself. But I did take that time to show brook how she can give treats (long ones) with out getting her fingers in the cage, and she is also still a little jumpy when moonlight takes the food, so maybe they were both slightly tramatized by yesterdays events. As far as Robert goes, well its a slow progress. He isn't glaring at moonlight constantly anymore, but he isn't paying her any attention either...he's not really a bird person, but he has always had a soft spot for moonlight, and always shares the healthy part of his meals with her...I hope things get back to normal. Oh and I am also going to get some plexi glass for the lower portion of the cage....Thank you all again for all your thoughts and consideration....it definately takes a village to raise these babies...I'm so glad I am a part of this one:hugz:

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Hi Denise,

I am sure Moonlight was a bit traumatized by the event as well. It will take some time for things to settle down. It looks you are on the right path. You all will be fine in a while. Just do everything you can do to prevent the bite.

Good luck.

Lar

[FoxersArtist]

Hi Denise.
This is probably a little late and I haven't yet read the other replies though I am sure there are some good suggestions. Coming from a household that has both birds and kids in it, I understand where you are coming from. Do try to understand that your hubby has his own instincts and is driven to protect his children. That being said, Moonlight was in fact being a bird and not only that, but she was in HER space, not the childrens. Many birds view the bottom of their cages as a nesting area and will attack anyone, even those they love, when they invade that space. Even still, I wouldn't continue to risk your babies getting bitten as a little bruising and a cut might not be what happens next time. I'm sure you already know this and I know that you would never wish anything bad on your kiddos or set them up to get hurt.

My suggestion to you is to get some baby gates and gaurds and explain to the kids that Moonlight can be fun, but she can also be very, very dangerous and that you made a mistake when you told them it was ok to touch her. Sometimes mommies and daddies make mistakes too, we all make them sometimes. The truth is that a 4 year old may or may not even realize that she did anything wrong in that situation. Sometimes it's ok to touch the bird and sometimes it's not. That could get a bit confusing to a small, curious mind who knows how much fun it is to feed the bird some treats.

I'll be honest in admitting that when we first got Benny BatToo, we thought it was cute to watch Gabe feed Benny some scrambled eggs or other treats. But we got to thinking about it and decided that even if Benny is a nice bird, something could go wrong in an instant and how will we tell Gabe that it's ok sometimes and that it's not ok at other times? My flock is a HUGE part of our family and I want our kids to be able to enjoy the birds too, but at the same time I just cannot get past the fact that birds are wild animals and often times unpredictable. We have decided that our birds will be fun for the kids to look at in a supervised environment until they are old enough to understand the complexity of parrots and are responsible enough to handle any consequences. If there is not a firm boundary put in place that the kids aren't to touch the birds and if there aren't safety mesures put in place (gates and locks where babies can't reach), I know one of my kids will end up very hurt at some point.

If you have a Burlington Coat Factory near you, they have great baby gates. Babies R Us (and sometimes walmart) has a really neat baby gaurd that can be placed all the way around a parrot cage so kids can look but not touch. Supervising your child in the home at all times is completely unrealistic in my opinion as there are many things that must be done to keep the household going...but as with any parent, baby proofing is a must for safety and that includes baby proofing so that birds are out of reach too!

Here are a couple pictures of what we have set up to give you ideas. Sorry your little sweety got bit, but I know you can work it out so that everyone is safe and happy, including Hubby!
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa154/Foxersartist/Sloan%20Family/GabeNearGate.jpg
-Anna

[FoxersArtist]

Again, Gates and such should be used to provide safety from unsupervised little hands from reaching into cages. Kids should always be supervised while birds are out.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa154/Foxersartist/Sloan%20Family/GabeHobbit.jpg
-Anna

[too&me]

Good illustration of your usage. Good to see Gabe and Hobbit both, cute cute cute.

[jelandusn]

Hi,
I just thought I'd add one more suggestion. Maybe Moonlight could have an area that is all his own. Could you pick another safe place where the children can interact and give treats to and use his cage as a place that's only for him? When I was growing up, we always had cats and dogs. Although the animals weren't aggressive, (the dogs were fine but those cats sure knew how to let you know what they didn't like!!!), they all had an area where we were not aloud to touch them or bother them at all even if it was to give them a treat. The animals learned this very quickly, too. If they had enough of us, they'd go to their special area and relax. I think 4 years old is old enough to follow rules without having barriers. Just explain that the rules are not there to be mean but are there to keep everyone safe and happy. I'll admit, though, some kids, (I know because I was one of them), will just always test rules. I remember I bothered one of our cats in his special area and he scratched me pretty bad. After that I never did it again with any of the animals. I understand that your husband would be upset that his child is hurt but I don't understand getting mad at a bird. This should be used to teach a lesson. Let the child learn that this is one thing that could happen if you break the no touching rule. If everyone gets mad at the bird then the child only learns that the bird is mean and scary. When my cat scratched me my mom used that time to explain the rule to me. She didn't show any anger towards the cat or me but just told me once again not to bother the animals when they're in their spot. Of course she did this after I stopped crying hysterically!

[too&me]

Smart Mommy! Sounds like you had a good upbringing.

[Denise and Moonlight]

Thank you all so much again...Anna I love your pics...I don't know if I can do quite as much as you, I live in a pretty small place, only 3 br and I have 3 kids, plus moonlight and 2 dogs. As it is, moonlights cage takes up a lg portion of our living room :) but I think the second pic is one that I can use right away, I just havent been able to find a good baby gate yet. Walmart doesn't have the right kind and the only other places that I have around here to get one at is over an hour away. But I hope to get out this weekend and find one that will work for her cage. As I said there is really no where moonlight can call her own except her cage, thats why I am pretty big on the kids not messing with her in it...brook is, well lets just say a very strong willed child....ok, yes, she is bad. The other two kids are just, wow, wonderful, but the dr. at developmental peds. said that brook is very advanced for her age and that I am going to have a lot of problems with her testing boundaries, and getting into everything when she is bored, she just turned 4 about a week ago, and got out of head start around the same time...and boy is she giving me a time! But I do hope that the bite was enough to remind her that birds are not to be taken lightly, she doesn't seem to blame moonlight even though her daddy kind of did, I also did the usual.."that's why I tell you not to put your fingers in her cage, you have to follow the rules...why do we have rules.." and she said "to keep us from getting hurt" so Maybe this will be a lesson learned....I really hope it is. But again thank you all, I will let you know if anything comes up!

[FoxersArtist]

The gate in the second photo is called a "Play yard XLT," I think...
-Anna
Thank you all so much again...Anna I love your pics...I don't know if I can do quite as much as you, I live in a pretty small place, only 3 br and I have 3 kids, plus moonlight and 2 dogs. As it is, moonlights cage takes up a lg portion of our living room :) but I think the second pic is one that I can use right away, I just havent been able to find a good baby gate yet. Walmart doesn't have the right kind and the only other places that I have around here to get one at is over an hour away. But I hope to get out this weekend and find one that will work for her cage. As I said there is really no where moonlight can call her own except her cage, thats why I am pretty big on the kids not messing with her in it...brook is, well lets just say a very strong willed child....ok, yes, she is bad. The other two kids are just, wow, wonderful, but the dr. at developmental peds. said that brook is very advanced for her age and that I am going to have a lot of problems with her testing boundaries, and getting into everything when she is bored, she just turned 4 about a week ago, and got out of head start around the same time...and boy is she giving me a time! But I do hope that the bite was enough to remind her that birds are not to be taken lightly, she doesn't seem to blame moonlight even though her daddy kind of did, I also did the usual.."that's why I tell you not to put your fingers in her cage, you have to follow the rules...why do we have rules.." and she said "to keep us from getting hurt" so Maybe this will be a lesson learned....I really hope it is. But again thank you all, I will let you know if anything comes up!