How do you teach gentle?

[jelandusn]

Hi everyone!:D
I just joined today and I'm hoping I can get advice on building trust with my new bird. I adopted a 1 1/2 year old African Grey about 2 months ago. I'm guessing that he had a wonderful start to life before the pet shop because he's an amazing bird. He's not aggressive and isn't scared of anything. It took about 8 months before I could convince my husband to let me get a parrot and during that time I'd visit him every week. We actually weren't visiting him but buying crickets for my frog. Anyway, I think since he saw me every week he started to like me even before I bought him. During those 8 months he was never allowed out of his tiny cage and had no toys and only ate sunflower seeds. The pet store owner told us that his previous owner didn't have time for him because they had too many parrots. Anyway, to make a long story short, my bird trusts me totally. I can touch him anywhere and even put a harness on him and go outside. The problem is, our relationship isn't as close as it could be because I don't trust him!! Odd huh? The reason I don't trust him is because he doesn't know how to be gentle. Now I don't let his beak anywhere near my skin and am even pretty nervous when he wipes his beak on my pants. I feel so bad because he's not aggressive at all and just wants to show affection. He even doesn't hurt that bad but how do I get it so he doesn't hurt at all? Today we had a breakthrough because he slipped off the windowsill and was hanging upside down. I wrapped my hands around his body to help him up. He put his beak on my hand and bit down a little too hard so I let go. I then tried again and he put his beak on my hand again but this time was very gentle. I know he was just using his beak as a third foot so that's why I let him do it. I would love to let him use his beak with me but I just don't want mess things up. I'm so worried that I'll inadvertently train him to bite. Wow! That's a long roundabout way of asking how do I teach my cool bird gentle?

[birdie]

First of all, Hi and WELCOME! to HB!!
Don't make it a big thing {drama} when he does bite. They like drama. Don't let him think you are scared of being bitten, he'll intimidate you. Really praise when he's gentle and ignore when he's not, don't give a reaction.
I say to mine in a soft voice, not so hard mommas skin isn't as hard as your beak. My bites have become less frequent and not as hurtfull.
No matter what you do... birds bite, that's just part of owning a parrot.

[bonnie]

Hi!!! Welcome! Glad to have you!

I have a Moluccan Cockatoo. He use to REALLY intimidate me with that big beak and all that power. I noticed as I got calmer about him 'beaking' me, he got gentler. Like Brenda said, being beaked and bit is all a part of parrot owning. I do tell him from time to time to loosen his grip or that he's hurting his momma, in a kind, soft voice. I'll also barely tap his beak if the pressure is too much. He usually gets the hint.

[FoxersArtist]

I think this is a very good question though I am not sure I will be able to provide the answer you are looking for. For a start though, it sounds like you have a remarkably sweet african grey as many of them do not like to be touched "all over" and can be nippy at times. As a parrot owner, something that you will have to eventually accept is that parrots bite for many reasons. ALL parrots bite (yes, even the really nice ones) and even the most knowledgeable parrot owners do suffer a bite from time to time. I do not think this is because our pet parrots want to bite us, but it is simply because we do not speak the same language as our birds. Many times, our birds will express to us that something is not right in their world via subtle body language, but we may not be trained to notice or the body language may be too subtle to notice even when we have come to read our bird quite well. This is usually when a bite occurs because the bird has moved on from trying to communicate nicely and feels the need to show you very plainly that you have crossed the line. Some birds offer a warning bite to those they really love and trust as a last ditch effort to politely express themselves and that is a sure fire que to back off, but teaching yourself to prevent a bite will go a long way.

As you get to know your bird, you may start to notice when he becomes irritated or over stimulated. If this occurs, place him calmy back into his cage. One really great way to tell what is going on with your parrot is to look into his eyes. The eyes dilate when a bird is excited or irritated and sometimes this can mean that a bite is near. Other owners say that their bird just gets a certain look before biting and this a good thing to train yourself to look for. A bird that is stretching it's neck out to look taller is likely afraid of something or threatened. A bird that fluffs up the feathers on the nape of the neck can sometimes indicate that it is upset and likely to bite - though some birds will also fluff all of their face/head feathers and bow their head for a good scratch. (parrots like to have their head feathers petted against the grain...just a tidbit if you didn't already know.) Some birds will also fan their tail out when they are irritated and ready to bite though I have never seen an african grey do it, so I am not sure if they are species that does.

All of that being said, some birds will nip or nibble on your fingers in an effort to play or preen and sometimes they can bite harder than we are comfortable with. All birds respond best to different things, but here is something that I have found affective with species who tend to have a greater capacity to learn than others. When you are petting your bird on the head, pet him very slowly and tell him in a soothing voice "gentle." You can even go as far as to gently rub his foot while saying the same thing over and over again. Once you feel he has learned what "gentle" means, tell him "gentle" every time he bites you too hard and calmly pull your hand away from his beak before offering it again. Never yell at a bird or give him a great deal of attention for a bite. Many people just ignore the bite completely and place the bird back in his cage until he has settled down, but if your bird can grasp the concept that he is hurting you (when he does not mean to hurt you) he will likely take the hint and lighten up his bite. If your bird is biting hard, there is probably a reason behind it that you need to discover and address. After all, this is how your bird communicates.

Good luck and I hope you found this helpful.
-Anna

[too&me]

Great advice & well written I cannot add much to that other than with some birds their cage is their castle & they will defend it, does not sound like your guy is like that now.

[Julie]

Welcome!

I have a Congo African Grey for short here on the web site CAG. She is the larger of the species. Do you have a Congo or Timneh, is the beak all black, or black and white?

We also got our Grey from a pet store. They pick up on the most subtle of clues. We did exactly as Anna suggested, with the "gentle". She does NOT like to be touched all over, and is only trusting with my husband and myself. But she does KNOW exactly what "gentle" is and what we mean by it. If you are un comfortable with the petting of feathers, try to softly rub the top of thier beaks with gentle. I know that mine does not like to be cuddled very often, and definately does not want her toes touched. That is a sign to mine that I want to start play.

Greys can be notorious for "luring" you in just to "fake" you out. Take your time and patience and your trust will grow between the both of you. They respond best to a low relaxed tone, especially because that goes hand in hand with what you are trying to get across. This is the hard part for me, as I am a bit loud of a person naturally. When mine was very young she would grip as hard as she could all the time. This is the first thing we worked on, biting was second. Both came about with the same gentle phrase. Also try giving treats this way also. The pinning of the eyes is a good thing to watch for, they will also give you the eagle stare too. With greys they have a very distinct "hard" ruffle of the feathers when they are really getting agrivated.

Good luck and let us know how things progress! Sharing a plate of scrambled eggs is always an awesome way to build trust too!

[Dot]

When the bird is with you and uses his beak to climb, tell him "gentle." If he bites you, do not react. Just go put him in his cage for a time out. Don't say anything to him. The time out does not have to be long. Five minutes would do. Then let him out and remind him to be gentle.

[MoluccanZoey]

I'm probably doing this all wrong- but it seems to work (and its worked for other species). When Zoey is 'feeling' but then nips to hard, I "squawk"- I let out a little like yelp, that lets her know it hurts. I try to mimic what she would let out if I got too close to a blood-feather or something. She stops what she is doing and looks at me and then is generally much gentler. I do say gentle after the squawk. If she's just being a *bit* too hard I just say gentle, and that's enough. But if she gets carried away, the squawk seems to redirect her.

[FoxersArtist]

I find this to be an interesting topic! What you brought up brings me to mention that parrots are super smart and there are differences in their communications and reactions to each other, just like there are with humans. I think squawking at a parrot when the bird is being too rough during a "preening" session might be an affective tool because they are harming you by mistake and are not aware of the pain they are causing. In my opinion, using this tactic if the bird bites for other reasons (like to communicate irritation) would only perpetuate the biting as the bird is getting a loud response out of you when she bites - which is lots of fun for her and ultimately what she is seeking! Parrots do not understand the difference between positive and negative attention so any attention is a suitable reward for a bad behavior.
-Anna
I'm probably doing this all wrong- but it seems to work (and its worked for other species). When Zoey is 'feeling' but then nips to hard, I "squawk"- I let out a little like yelp, that lets her know it hurts. I try to mimic what she would let out if I got too close to a blood-feather or something. She stops what she is doing and looks at me and then is generally much gentler. I do say gentle after the squawk. If she's just being a *bit* too hard I just say gentle, and that's enough. But if she gets carried away, the squawk seems to redirect her.

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

I find that gentle, quiet discussions about the behavior work well. If Linus starts getting in a snit, we talk calmly about why this isn't a good idea. He often seems to go with the flow of my voice and tone. If he bites me, I tell that this is not how we do things around here. I calmly put him in his cage and walk into the other room (where I cry and bleed j/k).

[jelandusn]

Thanks for all the advice. My bird is a congo african grey. I'm actually not new to birds but I'm new to owning a big parrot. I had a friend who owned a moluccan cockatoo which is why I decided against a cockatoo!! :p He was the sweetest and I loved holding him and cuddling but he was just SO LOUD and VERY needy. I'm sure a lot had to do with the way he was raised but someone always had to hold him. If you put him down he would pace back and forth on his perch and make a very annoying high pitched whistle. I also had a teacher in college with an african grey and just listening to his stories about the bird made me want to get one. I couldn't touch his bird and he could barely touch the bird too because it was his wife's bird but watching him sit gracefully on his perch watching everything was enough for me. This bird is my first hand raised parrot so I may be expecting him to act like my parent raised parrots I had. In the past I've had cockatiels, parakeets, and one love bird. Not at the same time, though. When I got them none of them were tame but in a couple of weeks I had all of them able to sit on my hand and eventually I could pet their heads. I could not pet anywhere else and I got bit more times than I can count. But now, I think I'm seeing what the difference between a hand raised and parent raised bird are. My bird is actually gentle now!!! I just wasn't giving him the chance to show me that he was. At first, when he would bite too hard I think my reaction showed him to be gentle. I am not good with pain so if something hurts I jerk away. People say don't pull away and I tell myself don't pull away but I always do. But I think that worked. Like I said before, he wasn't biting to bite he was just exploring so seeing my reaction I think taught him that he was hurting me. I have also been bitten by him so that's how I know the difference between biting and exploring. Today while I was petting him he reached down and put his beak on my hand and gently felt it. I was so relieved because all the other times he would do that he'd end up biting me. It's never been really hard. Even when he meant to bite me it didn't hurt that much so I think I'm slowly starting to trust him. I think the problem is me. He hasn't really done anything for me to not trust him but because of the other birds that I had who never did touch me gentle with their beak, (except the lovebird who liked to nibble on my ears), I just expected the same from him. What I should do is see him for the trusting loving bird that he is. He's even bilingual!! I bought him in Korea so his first language is Korean!

[MoluccanZoey]

I find this to be an interesting topic! What you brought up brings me to mention that parrots are super smart and there are differences in their communications and reactions to each other, just like there are with humans. I think squawking at a parrot when the bird is being too rough during a "preening" session might be an affective tool because they are harming you by mistake and are not aware of the pain they are causing. In my opinion, using this tactic if the bird bites for other reasons (like to communicate irritation) would only perpetuate the biting as the bird is getting a loud response out of you when she bites - which is lots of fun for her and ultimately what she is seeking! Parrots do not understand the difference between positive and negative attention so any attention is a suitable reward for a bad behavior.
-Anna

Yeah, obviously I'm not doing it when she's in full hyper mode. That wouldn't really work. Then I think it would just be seen as "who can squawk the loudest contest time"! But when we are calmer it seems to work better than "no, No, NO!" Just a quick "Ack!" or something in her language seems to get the point across that it was a bit too hard. Then she just looks at me and it seems to "reset" if you will the gauge she is using (she starts out being very gentle again). I've used this technique with some other animals that don't take normal disapline well (well like you can tell a dog no or give a little tug on the collar or swat on the nose if they are getting rough) but for my ferrets they don't really "get" that. A little squeak lets them know they are biting too hard, and then maybe a scruff like the mother would. But some abused ones you can't do that, so just the squeak then.

[Dot]

I have a wonderful article to share with you. It was written by an eleven year old, the daughter of Dr. Susan Friedman. She is THE behaviorist. The article is so wonderful. We just need to be patient and appreciate them for what they are.

I hope you enjoy "My Year of Living Dangerously."

http://www.thegabrielfoundation.org/pdffiles/year.pdf

[too&me]

Absolutely wonderful! Thank you Dot!

[Julie]

That sounds exactly like what we went through with our grey as a baby. Very very good, thank you Dot!

[Dot]

That sounds exactly like what we went through with our grey as a baby. Very very good, thank you Dot!

Big hint here. There will be more of Susan Friedman available to HB members soon. Uncle, if you want to, delete this. ;)

[Angelbaby]

Welcome ,and I can read lots of info already to help you. I will just add what I do with my Angel. I am always petting his beak and saying "nice beak" When dad plays with him he is always a little rough and Angel might give a nip or two. As I watch them I repeat "nice beak" He knows for you can see him back off. Give your Gray some time for it sounds like you've already had a good start. So glad you were able to save him from the pet store.