full spectrum lighting

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

The room shared by my teils and quaker is, for the most part, not naturally lit. This has always concerned me, so I got some full spectrum light bulbs. Is this actually beneficial to them? Do they work as they claim?

Patty

[Dot]

Patty, I use what Don H. recommends - Chroma 50 or C-50 tubes in my florescent fixtures. Lighting is very complicated and I will let one of the more knowledgeable people explain it to you.

[Birdlover]

When Bill (birdscomefirst) sees this, he will have a great explanation. In short, the full-spectrum bulbs do not really provide UVB like they claim. I do like the looks of the light they provide, though.

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

Thanks you guys. I'll be waiting to see what Bill and Don offer as well.

Patty

[birdscomefirst]

I just saw this and I have a lot of info on this. Much more than I can get together at 11:12 PM:-)

I'll get the info together tomorrow or Monday and post it here.

To make a long story short, there is no benefit over regular flourescent lighting.

While some bulbs do in fact produce light in the usable UV parts of the spectrum, even the manufacturer of the bulbs says that a bird needs to remain 12 inches from the bulb for it to have any use whatsoever.

If you can tell me how a too is going to be 12 inches from one of these things for any amount of time:-) ...well, you get the point.

Anyway, the science behind this will be posted tomorrow or Monday.

Thanks,
Bill

[birdscomefirst]

Hi All,

A little background, I've researched this a lot. To put it bluntly, some vets are up on this some are not. I am also talking about physical, scientifically measured differences between flourescent and Full Spectrum lighting as sold for birds. Any perceived benefits are psychological on the part of the pet owner as there is no measurable difference to the effects on any pet. I might also suggest reading down through all of this before I checked out the links that I provided. here will always be debate on this issue but the science supports what i am suggestiong. I am also available to answer any questions either in this thread or via email.

So here Goes:-)


Theres a lot to read on this one but please feel free to read it all but the "salient" part of this info is on the bottom of page 2 going to page 3 where it states that the ultra violet part of the spctrum is absorbed by the lens. The entirety of the article , if read, tells about the benefits purported as being fraudulent. The UV portion is the critical part where birds are concerned. I'll post more as I find them in my files. Although it is a report based upon the use of these lights for people, it is the same for birds

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:CFE0JBbGb-IJ:irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/fulltext/ir659/veitch_mccoll.pdf+full+spectrum+lighting+ultra+vio let+meter+scam&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=11&gl=us&client=firefox-a




This tells you of the range of UV light frequency produced by Full spectrum lights. They frequencies are under 400 and they are filtered out by the cover on the light. End result, they do not effect the bird and in fact can't even be read on a light meter held an inch from the lens. In other words, the claims that these lights help with vitamnin D production are bogus. In the first place the lens on the light filters it out. In the second place, even if it didnt, the small amount of UV radiation that is emited is too far from your bird anyway to have any beneficial effect. The lights are essentuially useless except for visual effect



http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightingAnswers/fullSpectrum/production.asp

This page shows the actual scale based upon readings of a light meter overlaying a "full spectrum" light and a regular flourescent bulb. Note that they are practically identical. Full spectrum is a marketing ploy. There is no benefit over a regular light bulb other than lining the pockets of the light manufacturers.


http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightingAnswers/fullSpectrum/disadvantages.asp

You guys know, that I can always back up what I say with independent information. I usually like three sources . In this case, the sources are numerous. I think I've given enough here to make the point:-)
__________________



Just notice the link I provided that had the chart. A regular light bulb is incandescent light.

The chart showwed that it was no better to use a regular Florescent light vs. a Full spectrum light.

If the benefit of full spectrum is supposed to be the UV rays, which by the way are the ones that cause sunburn with respect to sunlignt, Birds or reptiles are not getting any from a so called full spectrum light. The UV rays are minimal at best and filtered out by the plastic lens covering the light.

Originally, full spectrum lighting was sold to museums to illuminate artwork because the lighting brought out color better. UV rays destroy artwork , That is well known. The covers of the lights were and still are designed to filter the UV rays. It doesnt matter if they are lights for museums, birds or reptiles. The amount of UV is so low that it doesn't matter, the rays are completely filtered by the cover, and even with the covers off, the full spectrum light registers in an almost identical way when tested with a light meter and compared to a regular flourescent bulb.
All the stuff that has been used to sell these bulbs is the kind of stuff PT Barnum would have loved.

There is no scientific study that proves any real benefit of full spectrum light. The only benefit is psychological and that has been proven. Even with no scientific evidence that the light is better than a regular flourescent light, people have the impression that it makes them feel better.

It's all untrue based upon scientific fact.

Sorry to be a nudge, but many people are simply hoodwinked by the companies that benefit by selling various things without the benefit of facts to back up their products. Full Spectrum lighting has no benefit over regular flourescent light. Again, that is not incandescent light, which is what is from a standard light bulb.

Regular flourescent lighting costs about half as much with respect to the cost of the bulbs.

-----------------------------------

A TESTIMONIAL from another person:

I agree the full spectrum lighting is not worth it. I work in a research lab where we grow plants or insects inside huge growth chambers where we can vary the temperature, daylength, and light intensity. We use a combination of fluorescent tubes and incandescent bulbs to get the lighting we use. This is even what is specified by the chamber manufacturer.
We purchased an expensive instrument which measures UV (and which we bought actually for outdoor measurements). It showed that some pretty new full spectrum bulbs I had access to gave about zero even when the sensor was placed a few inches from the bulb. A bit of unauthorized use of equipment at the time, but the debate had been raging elsewhere about it and I had to see for myself.
__________________

Hi All, Finally For Now as this all should be enough to chew on for awhile...

This is the actual response I got through a veterinarian that asked some questions for me about one of the better Full Spectrum Bulbs. This is asked of the manufacturer themselves. My arguments against the full spectrum lighting was the basis for the questions.

Note two important points.

One is that they acknowledge that the other manufacturers bulbs do not emit UVB rays which are very important. So that makes that part clear. This company admits that other bulbs do not supply the light they claim to provide.

Two is that even their light has to be 12 to 18 inches from the bird to have value.

How you gonna keep one of these things 12 to 18 inches from a macaw or a too or any other bird for any length of time to do any good?

So this is their comment written to a vet:

The quote starts here...

While there is some merit to the statement that your customer makes regarding full spectrum lighting and the absence of UVB, this does not apply to Zoo Med’s AvianSun 5.0 UVB compact fluorescent lamps. I am disappointed that your customer would make these accusations without first testing our lamps. It is true that most, if not all, of the other so-called “full spectrum” lamps on the market do not emit UVB. This is one of the main reasons that we introduced our AvianSun lamp! I can assure you that our AvianSun 5.0 Compact Fluorescent Lamps emit significant levels of measurable UVB and UVA at the recommended distances of 12 to 18 inches.

The website referenced by your customer does not include data on Zoo Med lamps. Instead, it lists data for lamps such as the Vita-Light by Duro-Test which is known to be absent of UVB. The term “full spectrum” has been used (and misused) over the years. In many cases (e.g. Vita-Light), it is used to describe a lamp that emit wavelengths across the full visible color spectrum as seen by humans. We use the term; “True Full Spectrum” to describe a lamp that emits not only the full range of visible light, but also UVB and UVA.

The quote ends here....

Back to me:-)now...

In my humble opinion, they negated the usefullness of other "lights labeled as full spectrum" and they admit that thier bulb needs to be 12-18 inches away from a bird to be useful.

Thanks,
Bill

[birdscomefirst]

That should be enough to get this discussion going. Its a lot of info ...
Bill

[Uncle]

This subject is so important that I have made it a Sticky.

[Birdlover]

Thanks Bill.

I wonder if anyone (other than ZooMed) has tested those bulbs to validate their claim that they do provide UVB.

[Dot]

I

If you can tell me how a too is going to be 12 inches from one of these things for any amount of time:-) ...well, you get the point.
Thanks,
Bill

Maybe you could have your too make sure the lighting is up to code while he is up there. :haha:

[TikiTalks]

and the pipes!! .. in fact i think we should just get a "too" belt for this venture! have all the neighbors lighting checked as well :)

[too&me]

Our Bird veterinarian recommends real sunlight exposure as often as possible & not through window glass. This is a problem for those of us with Houdini skilled birds, Hawks in the neighborhood & no outside aviary. :frozen:

[birdscomefirst]

This is a good reminder that window glass also filters out the UV rays.

Another note that I didnt mention before...Somewhere around here, I have a picture of how Zoo Med tested there bulbs. They were uncovered and not being used in the fixtures provided for them. That means that the bird would have to be 12 to 18 inches away from a hot, un-covered bulb for the bird to receive any UV radiation.

It just lends to the "bogosity" of the whole thing:-) HMMM, an invented word. "bogosity"...the amount of bogus qualities that can be attached to something. :-)

I think when one of my guys is checking the lighting for code, I'll get him to paint the ceiling too. (Probably with some of the papaya used to paint the wall) :-)

[birdscomefirst]

This is the setup for how the bulbs were tested for UV radiation, they were not tested individually and they were uncovered. This photo is from Zoo-Med. Click on the "thumbnail" to make it larger.

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

That should be enough to get this discussion going. Its a lot of info ...
Bill
Bill, Thanks so much for the huge amount of info. Certainly seems indisputable! Obviously, there's nothing like the real thing. I hope the apt complex managers don't mind if I knock down a wall. LOL.

Patty

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Take your hammer out girl and go for it. :bouncing:

[Dot]

I think "bogosity" is a fine word, as is "alienopomorphizing." :haha:

[birdscomefirst]

I can't even say that one :-) I get lost at the po part...

[Dot]

I can't even say that one :-) I get lost at the po part...

You don't think I can say it, do you? It makes sense where it was used in the thread. (I hope.) :smiles:

[FoxersArtist]

We have a few full spectrum bulbs in the aviary, but honestly, I felt a lot better when I found ou it didn't matter too much. Vitamins from the sun DO make a birds feathering more vibrant, but it was nice to learn that most of the vitamins they need come from their diet. This makes perfect sense for those species who spend a great deal of time perched in dense forest areas and prefer to climb rather than fly.
-Anna

[Patty, Linus and Co.]

We have a few full spectrum bulbs in the aviary, but honestly, I felt a lot better when I found ou it didn't matter too much. Vitamins from the sun DO make a birds feathering more vibrant, but it was nice to learn that most of the vitamins they need come from their diet. This makes perfect sense for those species who spend a great deal of time perched in dense forest areas and prefer to climb rather than fly.
-Anna

Good point Anna. Makes me feel better too.

Patty

[Don]

I've had my GW macaws under lights for over 20 years now, I have been using the C50 and Chroma 50 tubes over their cage. they are in perfect feather, they produce and have never had any medical problems. I have a room full of sorta rare Pyrrhura conuers under lights too - they can be described as the macaws are. There have been studies in area where humans work, the full spectrum lights are beneficial to their well-being and productivity - maybe its the same with the birds - I'll take hands-on long term experience over some meter reading any day.

I probably won't change a thing.

Don