Outside 2

[sugarsmomma]

We took the tooz outside today with the boston terrier. A friend wanted to take Spot with her and her dog Minnie . I put the lease on spot and off they go. Two times around the trailer park. They get back and Sugar wants to play with Spot so we took off the lease and put Sugar on the ground. Dawn the friend has never saw them play before. And as always the camera was with died batteries. Sugar ran up to Spot barking Spot barksand rans around Sugar. Both are barkinf and ranning around in cicrles. (Spot know that he can't bite the birds.) This goes on for about 10 minutes. Dawn starts laughing and has to sit down. So now I have someone that has seen them play.
It is always something going on here.
Outside 3 will be cvoming to a the web site soon so it will give you all something to watch for.
Sugarsmomma aka MIchelle

[Dot]

The dog and bird are faster than you are. If one decides to bite the other, you will never be able to stop him. In the name of all that is holy and sacred, do not let your dogs and birds play together.

And don't tell me "he has never bitten her" because I will just add "yet." Please, take good care of your pets.

[sugarsmomma]

No i would tell any one that there dog can play with the birds. Spot has atack Sugar lots of times he licks her toes. This dog will not even bite us in play. Not ever one has trained dogs all of their lives and worked with them from 6 weeks old to show them what how to play without biting. I am never more that 2 feet away when they play.
Sugarsmomma

[Dot]

No i would tell any one that there dog can play with the birds. Spot has atack Sugar lots of times he licks her toes. This dog will not even bite us in play. Not ever one has trained dogs all of their lives and worked with them from 6 weeks old to show them what how to play without biting. I am never more that 2 feet away when they play.
Sugarsmomma

When my birds are one foot apart and my hand is between them, I know that I cannot stop one of them from biting the other one. I am not that fast.

[bonnie]

That is a very dangerous thing to do. I hope you understand we are only telling you this to protect the bird and the dog. The only pets I have in my home are Chicken and my Beta fish. We do go visit my mom every now and then and I DO NOT let the DOG OR CAT come between me and my bird. I am in control at all times. With the dog and bird on the ground you are not in coutrol. I do not allow any dog/bird or dog/cat interaction. period.

Check these links:

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/topten.html-- check out #5 especially.
Quote: 'Even if a pet dog or cat has acted completely trustworthy around a pet bird, it should not be trusted.'

Other Pets
Cats, dogs and ferrets can be a potential danger to your bird. These animals have a natural hunting instinct and your bird may become the victim. Never leave these animals alone together unattended. In general, smaller birds are at greater risk but why take chances with any bird? --http://www.petvets.com/petcare/birds2.html#dangers

[fritters56]

I can unstand fully the concerns listed here... They are valid concerns and all pet owners need to be aware of the dangers involved.

Do I think that Sugars momma is iresponsable....no

so she chose to go a different route like "pets don't live in a vaccum"

I support her decision for I too feel that way.

Yes birds, especially Cockatoo's are most human like...they behave like they live in what would be the golden age of a child. Because of the ability to speak and the talent to mimic us we all want to see our favorite pet bird as the child we can have forever...

however, some of us, love them, feed them, protect them, even raise them, yet still see them as .....just pets

Pets that should have every right to be treated at least as good as the family dog. now, I do wish our dog wouldn't stop and lick his behind before playing with my bird and yes it is inherintly dangerous to even let the dog in the same room as my bird.

It is dangerous to have your bird outside, dangerous to take them on a drive, dangerous to let your bird loose in your house, attended or not, dangerous to feed them as a single mouse dropping just might be in their food.

Yes the danger must be managed, I agree, but my pets are a part of my family and I treat them accordingly...

Course I am a little different then most, grew up on a farm, we ate our "pets"

Now this is a debate that will last just about forever. I have seen a bird breeder brought to tears about the treatment that some of the their birds got from their new owners, I have been one of them. But you can't stop raising birds because of this, like I have seen more then one breeder do...

Now, I can't put your minds at ease about this subject, sure wished I could because there is such a thing as exceptable risk and as long as we take an animal out of the wild and try to "humanize" it, I feel we owe it to the bird to allow them to "live" as much as possable...

I know, I know, I talk too much :-)

fritters

[Dot]

I know, I know, I talk too much :-)

fritters

If you talk too much, you'll fit right in here.

BTW, there is a "Welcome Fritters" thread in which I asked if you had another name. Please ignore my post since I see that you do not have another name. :haha: I'm an old lady who just doesn't like screen names, but I can live with them.

[bonnie]

I fully agree that there are 'risks' we take with our birds every day. I am sure that if one of our members were to come into my house and 'evaluate' me, there would be things I do that everyone disagrees with. I am a big believer in quality rather than quantity of life. i just like to make people aware of the dangers of things we do. I would hope and pray that anyone here would do the same for me if they saw me doing something dangerous.

[too&me]

Just want to point out that it is not only the possibility of a bite but also the exsposure to dog saliva. Dog cat & human saliva contains bacteria that are quite dangerous to our birds there is a link to that information on another thread. You should read it just to have that knowledge. I do know that it is too late after a bite to take it back. We have dogs cats & birds and it is not always easy to keep them apart. I worry for my dogs noses & the Too's safety as one of the dogs is a jealous girl, so far so good. The cats are afraid of the Too's but will occasionally share my lap with me on guard
http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa264/Firefly_mom/th_DSC05738.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa264/Firefly_mom/?action=view&current=DSC05738.jpg)
Email & IM

[fritters56]

IThanks it is nice to be here... It is great to have discussions on such things as this. I will admit that after a whole lifetime of raising different types of pigeons that I was quite taken in by my first parrot, since that time I have had an inturnal arguement going with myself about wether or not my parrot has a "human" or "human like" soul and if this is true what do I owe the powers to be for placeing this "soul" in my care.

Are they just absolutely fabulous pets or are we actually seeing our own soul in minature????

By the by I can be called "Carey", I write under the pen name Fritters and have for a few years now so I have a small following that identifies with this pen name. Now before it starts not all writers got straight A's in english, besides English is my second langauge growing up we spoke "Hillbilly"

Also I am married to sugarsmomma and have been for some thirty odd years, (she keeps track of the number and reminds me of it from time to time, mainly when ahe is mad at me!)

Subjects like this should be able to be openly discussed, ones like letting the dog play with your ward should indeed be discouraged. I had one young man come to me in tears as his mother had left him in charge of her bird when she went out of town. He was very sorry he had done what he did. he let his pet ferret play with his mother's parrot.. Ferret won, bird zero.

well talk at you all later!!

[Dot]

Michelle and Fritters,

Not ever one has trained dogs all of their lives and worked with them from 6 weeks old to show them what how to play without biting.

Please try to understand that our first concern is the parrot. We don't know you guys and had no way to know that Michelle trains birds. Still, IMHO, it is an accident waiting to happen.

But try to remember this. There are people who lurk here and never post. If no one said letting dogs and birds play was dangerous, then a beginning bird person might think it was ok. Hey, it was on that board and no one said it was wrong.

As a group, that is where we are coming from.

[sugarsmomma]

That is very true not every one know that i would not tell a beginning bird or dog person to try letting thier bird and dog play. Thanks for the corcern and believe me we watch them like hawks when they play.
Sugarsmomma

[Larry, Baby and Me]

Yep - dogs and birds = preditor and prey. Preditors eat preys.

Tongue in cheek aside...

A very good friend of mine and his partner are breeders and live on a very large farm. They have horses, cows, dogs, and over 200 breeding pair.

He "had" --- notice the operative word had?

He "had" a beautiful eclectus hen - you know the one - georgous red. Her name "was" Raja. She went every where with him. She "was" a dear and he loved her so.

Also on their farm they have a wolf. Yep - a tame wolf.

One day - very early in the morning somehow Raja got out of her cage. She had never done this before. He knew she had gotten out of her cage because the wolf walked proudly up to him with a red rag in his mouth and dropped it at his feet. The red rag was Raja - dead but still warm.

To this day my friend does not have a companion parrot. He still greaves over his Raja.

Remember folks - dogs are nothing but wolves in dog's clothing.

Preditor versus prey. Prey loses every time.

And that's them apples!

[birdie]

:tears: that made me cry! I couldn't imagine losing one of my babies, especially like that. I would blame myself forever.


Yep - dogs and birds = preditor and prey. Preditors eat preys.

Tongue in cheek aside...

A very good friend of mine and his partner are breeders and live on a very large farm. They have horses, cows, dogs, and over 200 breeding pair.

He "had" --- notice the operative word had?

He "had" a beautiful eclectus hen - you know the one - georgous red. Her name "was" Raja. She went every where with him. She "was" a dear and he loved her so.

Also on their farm they have a wolf. Yep - a tame wolf.

One day - very early in the morning somehow Raja got out of her cage. She had never done this before. He knew she had gotten out of her cage because the wolf walked proudly up to him with a red rag in his mouth and dropped it at his feet. The red rag was Raja - dead but still warm.

To this day my friend does not have a companion parrot. He still greaves over his Raja.

Remember folks - dogs are nothing but wolves in dog's clothing.

Preditor versus prey. Prey loses every time.

And that's them apples!

[bonnie]

I talked to a dear friend of mine. She has a few friends who have personal experiences with this. Here is what she had to say:
A cockatiel was killed by a rescue whippet (little greyhound-like dog) when they were "playing." They had played together before without a problem, and the dog didn't intend to kill the bird. He was just too rough with it.

Second incident was a CAG killed by a family dog. Again, they were playing as they had many times before. Dog got too rough.

I know both these people. Both loved their birds and otberwise took good care of them, but were convinced the dog would not hurt the bird.

The birds are just as dead, even if the dogs didn't intend to kill them

[EasySpirit]

I'll try putting a different twist to this.

Having trained dogs for over 25 years and continue to have active performance dogs I have learned a few things.

One of the hardest behaviors to work with a dog is when they go into drive. There are different types. This is what makes pitbulls fight...in drive they can be a bloody mess and yes...pain increases the drive and that is why they fight to the death. Pits are wonderful sensitive dogs and best when trained with a gentle hand as anything strong "gets them off" and starts the drive.

Some dogs are hunters...sight hounds go for the movement. Sweet as can be IG (Italian greyhound...toy breed) still has drive and you can see this when you take them by lure courses....natural instinct kicks in.

Bostons are sweeties. Have you seen them in drive? There are wonderful flyball dogs that are Bostons, latch onto toys and never let go. They may be soft and sweet but they still possess drive.

What does this have to do with birds? Doesn't matter how sweet the dog. If something occurs that kicks the dog into drive (TOY drive, fight drive, protective drive) I know who looses as I have heard too many stories. The toy drive is the one where some people loose it as this is the playful won't hurt a fly thinking and many don't see this one coming.

Yes, there are a lot of dangers. But there can also be "an ounce of prevention".

[EasySpirit]

I'll try putting a different twist to this.

Having trained dogs for over 25 years and continue to have active performance dogs I have learned a few things.

One of the hardest behaviors to work with a dog is when they go into drive. There are different types. This is what makes pitbulls fight...in drive they can be a bloody mess and yes...pain increases the drive and that is why they fight to the death. Pits are wonderful sensitive dogs and best when trained with a gentle hand as anything strong "gets them off" and starts the drive.

Some dogs are hunters...sight hounds go for the movement. Sweet as can be IG (Italian greyhound...toy breed) still has drive and you can see this when you take them by lure courses....natural instinct kicks in.

Bostons are sweeties. Have you seen them in drive? There are wonderful flyball dogs that are Bostons, latch onto toys and never let go. They may be soft and sweet but they still possess drive.

What does this have to do with birds? Doesn't matter how sweet the dog. If something occurs that kicks the dog into drive (TOY drive, fight drive, protective drive) I know who looses as I have heard too many stories. The toy drive is the one where some people loose it as this is the playful won't hurt a fly thinking and many don't see this one coming.

Yes, there are a lot of dangers. But there can also be "an ounce of prevention".


About toy drive. In the sport of flyball the fastest running dogs are those that run for a toy vs those that run for food. The dogs go over 4 hurdles, catch a tennis ball then return over the hurdles to the owner. The goal is to get them to the box fast but then once they get the ball you need to train that this is not the most important thing....the toy the owner has is the desired outcome.

How do you teach toy drive. It might start with target training, touch an object, click and get a treat. Then you play making it hard to get the toy...they get worked into a frenzy. Yep, that is what we want as it sparks a fast speed to return to the owner and beat the other team. Major DRIVE which is what we want but controlled.

Now, the dog in team A may see the dog in team B go after the ball in their box. A dog...thinks I want that ball and chases in the other lane. Or A dog sees macho dog in lane B and needs to put him in his place and chases. These are dogs trained 1-3 years or more and still might go into "drive".

Consequences....chase 3 times your are expelled for the tournament and possibly banned for one year. Yep, they know the seriousness of chase and what drive does even to the best trained dog. Chase and fight or hurt another dog...life time ban. It is unacceptable behavior, can have serious consequences if continued and shows poor training or a dog that is not meant for this sport.

Now, cute dog and bird playing on the floor. Go in circles or a little chase (doesn't matter who starts it) and in a flash of an eye drive can hit and the game has become very serious. It is not only big dogs but yorkies and other small dogs who are just as able to inflict serious harm or consequences.

This discussion isn't just related to dogs and birds. Cat and dogs have the same issue. Talking with several vets who see a lot of animals the discussion does come up. We may think cats are in charge and push dogs around or can hold their own. The vets have a different view...in most cases it is the cat that looses.

Heres another thought. People who have afghans and show or lure course are cautious about their surroundings. It can even be a child just running by and just like that the dog lunges or goes to chase the prey.

All these dogs are wonderful pets. Mine are part of the family and all the birds, dog, fish, cat cohabitate. There are a few ground rules though and I am a vigilant owner. The dogs are good dogs. Why set them up for failure down the road.

Now you know about flyball training, how you teach patterning for a desired repeated type of behavior. Works for birds also. Have I ever mentioned my plan to have a dog do an agility course while one of my birds does a course on a table...simultaneously.

That is on hold as work has kept me prettttttyyyyyy busy the last couple of months.

Won't see ya'll on the weekend as we are off to the races.

Girl....Lechsinska's Shania Girl is #1 of her breed in the country and probably world doing the sport of flyball. At 11 she still is pretty good at holding her own!

Oh, a Jack Russel Terrier and a sight hound live here along with the two Polish Lowland sheepdogs.

[too&me]

You are the "Queen " Easy Good information and thanks for the insight.