Advice please

[too&me]

Any of you who have a bird that self mutilates I would like some input -Miss Fred has a history of this behavior & wondered if any of you might share some triggers & things that have helped.

[bonnie]

That is terrible! I have no input for you daer, but I'm sure others do. I got really lucky with Chicken. Even though he's been through a lot the most he does is over preen a bit... I hate to see the self mutilators... poor babies...

[Julie]

My Carl does this. I am no expert on this, I have only had him for about 3 years now. I am more than happy to share everything that I know and have learned. In some ways they are very similar to pluckers, but in others very different.

Do you have specific questions, or what would you like for me to share?

[too&me]

Share anything you think might be helpful please. She has no injuries at this time but is in a spherical cervical collar and wearing a vest.

[Julie]

About 3 years ago I walked into a bird store and was immediately "chosen" by Carl. He was apparently set up to be a breeder, knowing how hard it is to re-home cockatooz. Well he wanted nothing to do with the girl and began to mutilate to get attention. He dug a hole so big in his chest that he had to have surgery to repair it. I guess we came along right after his wound had healed and he had been out of the cone (cervical collar) for about a month.

We had him for a year and a half till he started to dig (mutilate). We were in the process of buying a home about an hours drive away, which drastically cut down in the amount of time we were home, and it was spring time. We rushed him to the vet, where they gave us two cones, and we tried a round of the hormone treatment to try and calm him down. The hormone treatment worked, but too well, he was literally a zombie for about 2 months. No talking no playing, he just sat there.

We have learned to spot key behaviours that he displays when he is in "the mood" to dig. He has a distint head shake, and will start to stare at his chest or feet. Then we notice too much preening normally in the chest region. When he is actually digging he will look like he is preening but have one foot lifted and in a fist because he is huring himself but will not stop. He will very quickly throw his foot down, grab the perch, and start shaking his head no, and makes a certain call/coo. We call this is "wind-up" call.

He seems to have several triggers, but is much worse in the summer than the winter. He also needs a good amount of 1 on 1 time, even if he is just sitting with you playing on his own. He has done well with lots of human food, even if he just plays with it, and he needs to be misted daily, and a good deep shower 2 times a week. He does not like to play much, so finding toys that will divert his attention is very difficult.

When we had our first round of digging, we had him in the cone, and I felt so bad because it is very hard for them to move around, we got him a vest. It was one of those $75.00 "heavy duty" gizmos, that he got through in 6 days. We tried socks, which just made him dig harder because it was through the sock. We still go though periods where he diggs, and then has to be in his cone, and then he will go 2 - 6 months and be ok.

I know how heart wrenching this is, I just want to run over and hug you. We try to do everything we can think of to change thier environment, food, cage, and nothing we do to try and make life easier/better for them seems to help.

I was thinking of trying the chamomile tea next time he starts this, since this seems to help some pluckers. Please feel free to PM me and I'll give you my e-mail if you feel more comfortable then on HB to talk about this. Larry, Brenda, Anna, and several others have helped me with Carl.

[too&me]

I have read a lot & followed both Carl & Benny's stories so I know there is hope for a happy bird despite the problems. Just so want to be able to help her. She has a cage brim full of toys which see does not really have much interest in. Harry takes his toys apart she just seems to occasionally chew a piece of leather, but I realize she is still settling in & I have more to lean about her normal routines. Vet visit later this week. Before her last owner the previous human fed her only corn so she had improved her diet before she got to me but have no idea how long she was fed on the corn only diet.

[phonelady61]

well I dont know this to be true or not someone told me that birds that mutilate are relating to their diet . their diet is not good and that they are missing something . I dont have toos but had some friends that had them and they told me this . greys will sometimes do this too . Oh well hopefully someone else can give you some more info . good luck .

[Chrissy and Flock]

It takes a little time with the toys... Cassie has just in the last 2 months gotten where she will chew and play with her toys... and boy is she making up for lost time...

[birdie]

I have read a lot & followed both Carl & Benny's stories so I know there is hope for a happy bird despite the problems. Just so want to be able to help her. She has a cage brim full of toys which see does not really have much interest in. Harry takes his toys apart she just seems to occasionally chew a piece of leather, but I realize she is still settling in & I have more to lean about her normal routines. Vet visit later this week. Before her last owner the previous human fed her only corn so she had improved her diet before she got to me but have no idea how long she was fed on the corn only diet.

I know very little about plucking and even less about digging, but I am trying to learn from you all so I can watch Sydney. I'm hoping hers was mostly diet issues~ time will tell.
taco {23 yr old}, hubbys Mealy Zon came to us in bad feather condition. He didn't pluck just poor feather quality. He was fed mostly corn & sunflower seeds, and the owner lived in a dark basement. Taco was scared of light and bright colors when we 1st got him. I believe he is allergic to corn as when I added it back into his diet, his feather condition got worse, so he doesn't get corn anymore.

[too&me]

beautiful condition Brenda, what a difference!

[Julie]

What kind of too is Miss Fred, I can not remember. And if you have her in a cone, why do you also have her in a vest at the same time? If she is in a cone, she should not be able to get to her chest back, only her feet. Is the vest to keep her warm?

I do believe that it is most likely a behavorial thing with Carl. He seems to be "zoned out" every time he goes into these sessions. He seems to be in "another world", yes Diane I have an alien also, and us talking/interacting with him seems to "pull him away" from this. Thats why I'm trying so hard to keep him stimulated mentally, because when he is interacting with other things he ignores his chest. He loves those wiffle rattle toys, and I have been making large toys out of wiffle balls, leather and beads. He really seems to enjoy those too. We have him on a pretty good diet, with lots of fresh veggies, he does not care much for fruit, but will gobble down a fruit smoothie (home made, no ice cream just yogurt and frozen fruit) if given the chance. I think he enjoys the company of the other birds, but is terrified to interact with any of them. It quite possibly be a phobic thing too, but I'm trying my hardest to get his triggers figured out....

[too&me]

She came to me wearing both and with her cage full of toys, I rearranged them so she has more room inside to move freely. I am reading all you are telling me & hoping to help her as much as possible. Would love to be able to remove the collar for a bit to see how she does. I know she has been spay misted but not showered or soaked. Here is the collar-http://www.happybirdy.com/mainforum_happybirdy_com/attachment.php?attachmentid=428&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1207420368 (http://www.happybirdy.com/mainforum_happybirdy_com/attachment.php?attachmentid=428&d=1207420368)

[Julie]

The collar that she has on is not the same as the one we have for Carl. His is the more traditional Elizabethan collar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabethan_collar). I have been very curious about the type of collar that Miss Fred has on her neck, but have not looked more into it since Carl has been out of his cone so much recently. The vet I see currently is the one that fitted him with his 2 collars that we all ready have. The MAJOR drawback with the collar type that I have is that it is hard for him to move around the cage in it, and he does not eat much with it on. I would love to know more aobut the range of motion that she has, and how much area of her body that she can get to to preen. This might be why she came wearing both, or they might have been trying to be extra cautious. Is she friendly, because getting that dumb e-collar back on is impossible for me to do by myself. I need the help of at least one additional person.

She seems like a beautiful girl, by the way!

[too&me]

She is both gentle & kind, I will try to get some video of her in motion she can move pretty freely just very upright posture, she can even groom her tail feathers and barber her upper wings.

[Julie]

That would be awesome, I think I have a quick little clip of Carl in his cone at home. I will also talk to my hubby tonight and see if he and I can come up with anything specific that will trigger him. Sprinig time with the rather quick change in daylight hours, being in front of the window (predatory/prey response I think, again a nervous thing)and also he gets nervous being able to see the cats that my mom has if his cage sits in front of the french glass doors. He seems to LOVE to have his cage changed (toys/perches) all the time. I also belive that allowing him to grow in his wings, and flying around the house a little helps also. We have to be carefull as he has dive bombed and bit me several times, but each time he gets clipped down to a glide, where he really has to flap hard to gain altitude.

[too&me]

I think you can see it if you google Avian cervical collar- Only from Veterinarians.

[FoxersArtist]

The best advice I can give without knowing much about the situation (I'm so sorry) is to make sure fred feels secure in where her cage is located and give her lots of encouragement and comfort when she is out of her cage. Some birds likeit when we drape a towel or blanket behind the cage for a while to give them added privacy. Also buy LOTS of shreddable toys and keep her stocked up, even if she is destroying them very quickly. Also, lots and lots of bathes. A more balanced diet will also help her body and mind to heal. I can't wait to meet Fred on Friday and I might be able to help you more then. :) Good luck.
-Anna

Any of you who have a bird that self mutilates I would like some input -Miss Fred has a history of this behavior & wondered if any of you might share some triggers & things that have helped.

[Julie]

They can be happy little guys, they just need our time and love....

Playing video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kap2j-3kWjk

One of my favorite pics of us.... http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/julie727/Birds/Picture017.jpg

[too&me]

I already have a towel over one corner and she has little to no interest in all her toys so far, they were all in her cage when she arrived. Her last Mommy tried really hard to give her everything. She loves the window & attention wants kisses on her head. I have her in the kitchen around the corner from Harry in the living room, they can hear each other but not see yet.

[too&me]

Your favorite picture is great! Beautiful birds & beautiful eyes you have too. They all look quite content.

[birdie]

They can be happy little guys, they just need our time and love....

Playing video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kap2j-3kWjk

One of my favorite pics of us.... http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/julie727/Birds/Picture017.jpg

Carl is such a cutie, he reminds me of Cassie playing. I watched the one with the rope also, looked like he was having a ball!

[Julie]

They all look quite content.

Yes this is a weekend day after a full day of playing, and a big plate of pasta/veggie dinner. They all slept on me while I did my cross stitch! They are too much fun. I could not imagine my life without them!

Try to remember to think about us after your vet appt later this week, I would love to hear what he/she has to say.

[Julie]

Brenda,

I think our little tooz are just too much fun. Your Cassie sounds like just a hoot, though I think she has a bit more energy/attitude than my Carl. He is a big push over, and just like Anna's Benny Boy, a big softie.... Always looking for re-assurance and love.... You need to get a video camera, cause I'm dying to see her jumping between her and Stella's cage having a ball!

[birdie]

Brenda,

I think our little tooz are just too much fun. Your Cassie sounds like just a hoot, though I think she has a bit more energy/attitude than my Carl. He is a big push over, and just like Anna's Benny Boy, a big softie.... Always looking for re-assurance and love.... You need to get a video camera, cause I'm dying to see her jumping between her and Stella's cage having a ball!
I want one in a bad way, and had $ saved, but I got a new priority... Sydney so I have to start saving again once I get everything I want for my sweetie :hart:

[Julie]

We have been saving too, we got a video survailence system for our house installed, so now i can see the outside of the house on line when I'm not at home. It only came with 4 camera's to start, and we have 2 more exterior ones to do, but I'm thinking of adding an inside one that zooms so I can watch the birds during the day.... New cage for Duch first though, I think I finally have hubby convinced....

[birdie]

We have been saving too, we got a video survailence system for our house installed, so now i can see the outside of the house on line when I'm not at home. It only came with 4 camera's to start, and we have 2 more exterior ones to do, but I'm thinking of adding an inside one that zooms so I can watch the birds during the day.... New cage for Duch first though, I think I finally have hubby convinced....

That's another thing on our agenda also is a survailence system.

[FoxersArtist]

I want one in a bad way, and had $ saved, but I got a new priority... Sydney so I have to start saving again once I get everything I want for my sweetie :hart:


Thank you for spoiling me momma! I love you!
-Sydney

[birdie]

Thank you for spoiling me momma! I love you!
-Sydney
just wait until I get you home if you think you are spoiled now:inlove:
I love you too sweetie, be good for Auntie Anna
~momma