Gram Negative Results...what to do?

[CrystalinNC]

I took Buddy to the vet today. It actually started as a recheck for Charlie's eye (he had a piece of feather shaft in it that they removed) but he had been on eye antibiotics for the full 14 days and has been off for a week, and seems fine.
So I felt it would be money better spent to take the bird in that's been acting a little on the odd side.
Good thing I did...they did a gram stain and found him to be gram negative...that's all the info the doc gave me with antibiotics and instructions to give him yogurt.
Is there anything I can do to help be more supportive of Buddy's recovery? i have googled gram negative and haven't come up with anything...but did email the vet to see if they found a particular bacteria, or were just treating with broad spectrum.
Anybody have any advice?

[Birdlover]

Did they do a culture and sensitivity? They take about 5-7 days to get results, but its really the best way to know exactly what you are dealing with and which antibiotic is best.

[CrystalinNC]

As far as I know...all they did was the gram stain.
That's all he mentioned. He said that if that had come back OK...then he was going to do a blood draw...glad they didn't have to, for his sake, and ours
Little strapped for cash with the new cage, new babies, and two vet visits...all this year!
Spoiled little things...
but I would have done whatever needed to be done...=)

[birdscomefirst]

Gram negative bacteria are a huge variety of organisms. An antibiotic should do well with taking care of the problem.

These are they types of bacteria that I mentioned in another thread. Humans and mammals are normally laden with gram negative bacteria, it is a normal part of our systems and our saliva, for example.

Birds have gram positive bacteria as a normal part of their flora. Gram negative bacteria can make birds pretty sick if not treated.

This article gives a good explanation of the different bacteria.

http://www.parrottalk.com/gram-stain.htm

Gram negative bacteria can be passed to a bird by feeding them food from our mouths , for example. It is also possible to transmit gram negative bacteria by "kissing" a bird on the beak. Contact with mammals such as dogs or cats can transmit gram negative bacteria to a bird.

Beside the fact that it is dangerous to have any mammal play with a bird, the transmission of these bacteria from mammal to bird can be deadly.

Thanks,
Bill

[Don]

If they didn't take a culture and then do the sensitivity testing on what grows in the test petri dish - then you Vet is using the shotgun approach and hoping he guessed right.
Persoanlly, I prefer Vets that are willing to find the correct course of treatment, not just use the strongest meds possible when the correct medication might not do as much harm to the good bacteria in the birds system.

Cultures take from 18 to 24 hrs to be useful, some may take up to 72 hrs but thats uncommon, and the sensitivities can be read in another 12 to 18 hrs - I do them here and that's what it takes - when it takes a week+/- it's usually because the vet is sending them off for someone elses lab to process.

The importance of the sensitivity testing is that it gives a physical example of which antibiotic will work best against the offending organism(s), and many times there are secondary infections that are not evident with the first culture growth, so retesting After the first course of designated treatment is suggested.

Don
donsbirds.com

[birdscomefirst]

Don is right on the money!

Some vets will just blast away , full steam ahead with an antibiotic without knowing the exact organism they are trying to treat.

You do need more information...

Thanks Don!

Bill

[Don]

Yeah, since the advent of Baytril (enrofloxacin) way too many Vets have decided to use the big gun from the start before getting a quantative diagnosis.

Every antibiotic kills bad bacteria, but maybe not all - the sensitivity testing is what denotes the specific chemical to the organism at hand - and it also kills the birds beneficial bacteria as well - without deference.

It is my opinion that it is irresponsible to prescribe without any findings, and just that there are gram negatives present does not change that. If your bird is important enough that you seek a veterinarian to assist you - please find one that will do it right, it's worth it.

Don

[Debz_Crew]

I like gram stains and cultures and sensitivies too, and I agree, too many it seems want to just give Baytril, hope it works, then if it doesn't, that's more time wasted by having to then do the culture. That really frustrates me that they do that, especially now, wondering what is really going on with Dixie, after taking her to a Vet that "knew so much". ...sorry, got off track there, I'm still wanting to rant about her! (Not at all saying your Vet is incompetent).

I hope your baby gets well soon! I'll be saying a prayers for your little one.

[CrystalinNC]

It's not baytril...
it's Bactrim Spectra. He said that he wants him in for a recheck on the 7th, and if he's not better, then he wants to do a blood draw.
Hopefully they will answer my email. This guy is listed as one of the good avian vets in the USA....
I would hate to think I did all that research to find a good one....and he's not

[Chrissy and Flock]

Crystal I hope your baby gets well soon, and that you get the answers you need I will be praying for you and your little one....

[Birdlover]

Each vet will treat birds in there own way... some are certainly better than others. My vet does not do gram stains. There is too much guesswork and not enough answers. When we culture something that has to be treated, we culture again to make sure the bird is cleared. It is more expensive to do it this way, but well worth it. We also jump straight to a CBC with Bile Acids on every blood draw. You just get so much more information that you may end up doing anyway. When you go back, if he feels the need to do bloods, I would certainly call it money well spent to do a culture also.